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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:46:11 -0500 (EST)
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From: AndresMuro@aol.com
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-4EFF:2018] Re: Following up on the five Why's
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Virginia:
I am glad that you have not found most adult educators lacking experieence. You must be one of the few people that works in a program staffed by, mostly well prepared full-timers with extensive knowledge and experience. Unfortunately, in the rest of the US, the reality is that adult education programs must rely on a lot of part time teachers, limited resources and limited funding for professional development. Some programs even depend on volunteers w/`virtually no training. It is estimated that 75% of adults who enroll in abe programs drop out.
I am not criticizing the educators by making this statement. I am criticizing a country and a system where education is totally underfunded,where we must rely on untrained people and we are not willing to support them w/ adequate funding for the work that they do, or adequate professionalp development.
Andres
In a message dated Tue, 29 Jan 2002 2:24:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Virginia Tardaewether <tarv@exchange.chemeketa.edu> writes:
> Ouch ! AS a life long adult educator, comments such as this are not
> supportive of my profession. I have not found this to be true, either. IF
> it were true, maybe we need to look at staff development systems, content
> and application of skills for degree awards, etc.
>
> "However, unfortunately, most adult educators lack the knowledge and
> background to provide any kind of education, period."
> va
>
> Virginia Tardaewether
>
> Chemeketa {Place of Peace}
> Outreach Instructor
> Dallas, OR 97338
>
> tarv@chemeketa.edu
> 503-316-3242
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AndresMuro@aol.com [mailto:AndresMuro@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 8:24 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: [NIFL-4EFF:2015] Re: Following up on the five Why's
>
>
> Just as a clarification, the new GED only requires that students use
> calculators with a few problems, not for the entire math section. They still
> need to do basic operations. I am neither defending nor criticizing the new
> GED, nor its content, I am simply commenting on this fact.
>
> I would contend that the new GED has a new set of rules that teachers and
> students need to master, and this is obvious. the difficulty lies in the
> fact that most adult educators are part-timers with limited experience and
> little time for professional development, or volunteers. The few that
> participate in this discussion group, or that are being trained with the EFF
> model in some communites, or are knowledgable of other pedagogies will
> likely be very succesful with their students. This success will serve to
> claim that this or that model is the best. However, unfortunately, most
> adult educators lack the knowledge and background to provide any kind of
> education, period. If, at present, adult educators have low student
> completion rates, with the new, more difficult GED, it is likely that
> completion rates will go down. Unless, of course, there is a significan
> investment in adequate professional development, and not in just making
> things more difficult for the poor and the educat!
> ionally disadvantaged.
>
> Andres
>
>
>
> In a message dated Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:48:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, "CP"
> <cindypatten@home.com> writes:
>
> > I'm reading this ongoing discussion re:calculators in the GED and real
> life
> > application, and I'm wondering if anyone else out there considers the
> > incredibly poor learning curve not only these students, but everyone else,
> > who grew up dependent on a machine to do their calculations, would have,
> if
> > calculators were no longer produced or ceased to function.
> >
> > I teach all my students basic, life applicable math. Some do take longer
> to
> > pass the GED Math section, but they all can do it with pencil and paper,
> > without the use of calculators, and they feel exceptionally more qualified
> > than those they see around them, dependent upon a machine. They
> understand
> > the application and can abstract with the process, rather than just
> knowing
> > which buttons to press to get a correct answer.
> >
> > I'm not anti-calculator; I'm pro-real life, applicable learning to become
> > self-reliant while increasing self-esteem and self-knowledge while
> > completing life tasks. A calculator just doesn't 'do it' for me.
> >
> > Love this discussion, though - for the most part... you guys are great!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anne R Connors" <arconn@juno.com>
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 3:35 AM
> > Subject: [NIFL-4EFF:2011] Re: Following up on the five Why's
> >
> >
> > > I think Emily's suggestions for GED class are great, but I question if
> > > one has a 50 hour class , can one really go into the EFF ideas? I think
> > > we can teach it from our perspective..ie. ask how that will help them in
> > > life or show that particular use in life (ie. fractions in cooking,
> area
> > > in painting a room ) On the other hand, when some of the class will
> take
> > > their GED after only 20 hours of class and it is open entry,how in the
> > > world does one find time to fit discussion of the WHEEL into the class?
> > > And should one fit it into the class?
> > > And I agree with Andre that there are many things required for GED
> that
> > > are trivial. When does one use scientific calculators or the area of a
> > > triangle in "real" life? 99% of GED students don't see the connection
> > > and frankly neither do I. My classes want to get their GED yesterday
> and
> > > in a 2 hour class, they want to learn what is on the test..... Period.
> > > That is their goal, so I go with it!
> > >
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