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From: "Bonnie Odiorne" <bodiorne@c4k.org>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-4EFF:2019] Re: Following up on the five Why's
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I'd like to jump into this fray, since some of my buttons have been pushed.
I would, I expect, on the surface, to be considered as one of the
"inexperienced" adult educators who work part-time (albeit almost
full-time), with a not-for-profit, community-based organization which is not
a "recognized" education provider. Adult educators, and those wishing ESL
endorsements, are certified in CT, albeit the courses required are minimal.
I do not have a degree in adult education. I am "self-taught", having
learned my craft in a volunteer-based literacy organization, though as a
professional staff member. However: I have an advanced degree in another,
related field, have taught "adults" (college and university graduates and
undergraduates included) my whole life, and used my competencies from that
field to enter another. I have taken advantage of as many trainings,
workshops, conferences and/or courses, online or otherwise, as I could
afford or schedule. Much of my (unpaid) "free" time is spent monitoring
listservs such as these. I download a great deal of research material. I
take advantage of the links offered in CT via CREC/ATDN, and take advantage
of the many web sites out there for resources and models of best practices.
Inexperienced? Perhaps no more or less than our adult learners who come into
our classrooms with their life experience which can be transferred to
"academic" learning, family literacy, ESL, or job training programs in any
number of ways. Many of my students benefit from the idea that I, too, have
gone through job and career transitions, and am a lifelong learner. Let's
give our field the benefit of the doubt: we ARE on-the-job trained hands-on
learners, with academic backgrounds, for the most part. And isn't that just
how adults are supposed to learn, taking responsibility for our own
education, empowering ourselves and empowering the students we serve?
Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D.
WisdomWays, Program Facilitation
Computers 4 Kids, Waterbury, CT
bodiorne@erols.com
bodiorne@c4k.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <AndresMuro@aol.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 4:45 PM
Subject: [NIFL-4EFF:2018] Re: Following up on the five Why's
> Virginia:
>
> I am glad that you have not found most adult educators lacking
experieence. You must be one of the few people that works in a program
staffed by, mostly well prepared full-timers with extensive knowledge and
experience. Unfortunately, in the rest of the US, the reality is that adult
education programs must rely on a lot of part time teachers, limited
resources and limited funding for professional development. Some programs
even depend on volunteers w/`virtually no training. It is estimated that 75%
of adults who enroll in abe programs drop out.
>
> I am not criticizing the educators by making this statement. I am
criticizing a country and a system where education is totally
underfunded,where we must rely on untrained people and we are not willing to
support them w/ adequate funding for the work that they do, or adequate
professionalp development.
>
> Andres
>
> In a message dated Tue, 29 Jan 2002 2:24:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Virginia Tardaewether <tarv@exchange.chemeketa.edu> writes:
>
> > Ouch ! AS a life long adult educator, comments such as this are not
> > supportive of my profession. I have not found this to be true, either.
IF
> > it were true, maybe we need to look at staff development systems,
content
> > and application of skills for degree awards, etc.
> >
> > "However, unfortunately, most adult educators lack the knowledge and
> > background to provide any kind of education, period."
> > va
> >
> > Virginia Tardaewether
> >
> > Chemeketa {Place of Peace}
> > Outreach Instructor
> > Dallas, OR 97338
> >
> > tarv@chemeketa.edu
> > 503-316-3242
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AndresMuro@aol.com [mailto:AndresMuro@aol.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 8:24 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> > Subject: [NIFL-4EFF:2015] Re: Following up on the five Why's
> >
> >
> > Just as a clarification, the new GED only requires that students use
> > calculators with a few problems, not for the entire math section. They
still
> > need to do basic operations. I am neither defending nor criticizing the
new
> > GED, nor its content, I am simply commenting on this fact.
> >
> > I would contend that the new GED has a new set of rules that teachers
and
> > students need to master, and this is obvious. the difficulty lies in the
> > fact that most adult educators are part-timers with limited experience
and
> > little time for professional development, or volunteers. The few that
> > participate in this discussion group, or that are being trained with the
EFF
> > model in some communites, or are knowledgable of other pedagogies will
> > likely be very succesful with their students. This success will serve to
> > claim that this or that model is the best. However, unfortunately, most
> > adult educators lack the knowledge and background to provide any kind of
> > education, period. If, at present, adult educators have low student
> > completion rates, with the new, more difficult GED, it is likely that
> > completion rates will go down. Unless, of course, there is a significan
> > investment in adequate professional development, and not in just making
> > things more difficult for the poor and the educat!
> > ionally disadvantaged.
> >
> > Andres
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:48:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
"CP"
> > <cindypatten@home.com> writes:
> >
> > > I'm reading this ongoing discussion re:calculators in the GED and real
> > life
> > > application, and I'm wondering if anyone else out there considers the
> > > incredibly poor learning curve not only these students, but everyone
else,
> > > who grew up dependent on a machine to do their calculations, would
have,
> > if
> > > calculators were no longer produced or ceased to function.
> > >
> > > I teach all my students basic, life applicable math. Some do take
longer
> > to
> > > pass the GED Math section, but they all can do it with pencil and
paper,
> > > without the use of calculators, and they feel exceptionally more
qualified
> > > than those they see around them, dependent upon a machine. They
> > understand
> > > the application and can abstract with the process, rather than just
> > knowing
> > > which buttons to press to get a correct answer.
> > >
> > > I'm not anti-calculator; I'm pro-real life, applicable learning to
become
> > > self-reliant while increasing self-esteem and self-knowledge while
> > > completing life tasks. A calculator just doesn't 'do it' for me.
> > >
> > > Love this discussion, though - for the most part... you guys are
great!
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Anne R Connors" <arconn@juno.com>
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 3:35 AM
> > > Subject: [NIFL-4EFF:2011] Re: Following up on the five Why's
> > >
> > >
> > > > I think Emily's suggestions for GED class are great, but I question
if
> > > > one has a 50 hour class , can one really go into the EFF ideas? I
think
> > > > we can teach it from our perspective..ie. ask how that will help
them in
> > > > life or show that particular use in life (ie. fractions in cooking,
> > area
> > > > in painting a room ) On the other hand, when some of the class will
> > take
> > > > their GED after only 20 hours of class and it is open entry,how in
the
> > > > world does one find time to fit discussion of the WHEEL into the
class?
> > > > And should one fit it into the class?
> > > > And I agree with Andre that there are many things required for GED
> > that
> > > > are trivial. When does one use scientific calculators or the area
of a
> > > > triangle in "real" life? 99% of GED students don't see the
connection
> > > > and frankly neither do I. My classes want to get their GED
yesterday
> > and
> > > > in a 2 hour class, they want to learn what is on the test.....
Period.
> > > > That is their goal, so I go with it!
> > > >
>
>
>
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