Return-Path: <nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h6HLHx726143; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <A1DF203D7C27D411A4EC00D0B780558075723F@wrl_ntserver.jcplin.org> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Jennifer Morrow" <jmorrow@jcplin.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-4eff@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-4EFF:2427] Syntax X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 2871 Lines: 36 Andrea, I really like the point you make here: reading is not about sounds, it is about making meaning. I have asked young children who are struggling readers what good readers do. Many have answered with "they can sound out all the words." I follow up with the question, why do people read? These children almost always answer with "because they like to sound out words." These answers always frighten me. Clearly, these children have learned somewhere that reading is about sounds and sounding out words and has nothing to do with meaning or information or learning or imagination or enjoyment. I wanted to get more information about what you meant when you said "syntax is meaning." I always thought that syntax had to do with word order and grammar. In my mind, I thought that a sentence could have syntax but not meaning and meaning but not proper syntax. For example, the sentence, "A book picks the blue gopher" has a subject and verb but no meaning. The sentence, "Bathroom please where" does not have proper syntax but I could understand the idea the person is trying to convey. I certainly agree that using proper syntax makes it easier to convey a clear idea. Could you (or any others) speak more about the role syntax plays in meaning, reading, writing, speaking, or teaching. Jennifer Morrow Johnson County Public Library Adult Learning Center (317) 738-4677 jmorrow@jcplin.org -----Original Message----- From: AWilder106@aol.com [mailto:AWilder106@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:19 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-4EFF:2426] Re: A small point on reading theory George, you'd have to ask how does SPEECH/LANGUAGE take place and how does READING take place as two different activities. I said yesterday that "syntax makes us human," and I think that is right. Syntax is really a subject and a verb--something plus an action. This is a constant across all languages. Babies start by learning single words--names--for single items. Then they put them together with a verb, an action. that's syntax. Pidgin languages do the same, they're the simplest form of language. Reading without syntax is nothing, a bunch of vocabulary. Syntax is MEANING, which is why we read, anyway, we don't read for phonemes. So anything that you do that aims towards MEANING, towards SYNTAX is a good thing, what it's all about. Reading itself does depend on knowing the sound relationships, BUT if a reader cannot read for syntax and meaning, which means the individual reader has to read whole sentences out loud, completely, so they can hear them make sense,then the point of reading is lost. I believe you have to start out with the big picture as soon as possible--even with simple CVC words. This means starting out with REGULARITY and SYNTAX at the same time. This may be more than you asked.... Andrea
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