Return-Path: <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i1DJLMI28556; Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:21:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:21:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <7D36A5F6.29EF17A8.0AB94E44@aol.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: AndresMuro@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1006] Re: Don't cede the realm of research to th X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Status: O Content-Length: 7796 Lines: 147 Melissa: I think that you should try to participate in your own way w/o feeling that your contribution will be less than any of ours. As you say, there are different perspectives, positions, etc in teaching, learning, etc. There are also different perspectives and cultural norms on how to discuss things and participate in discussions. I am an argentinian jew married to a white american. My wife thinks that the proper way of talking is that one talks, the other one listens, and once one is finished, the other starts. both should try to take equal amounts of time. Argentinians are influenced by italians and they scream and gesticulate when they talk, they curse, etc. Jews also do the same and talk on top of each other (don't curse as much). When I talk to a jewish friend of mine, and I interrupt her, she always says, " I wasn't done" and I do the same with her and we go on talking forever. we come from environments where that is what you do. With my spouse, when I interrupt her, she gets mad at me and the exchanges always turns into a discussion of the appropriate form for discussion things. I was at a conference seveal years ago. A white university professor was trying to lead a discussion with a bunch of black community activists. When he did not like the way the community activists were participating, he told them that they were not participating in the proper fashion. Of course, the community activits ate him alive. They told him that the white discussion model was not the right or wrong one, and who did he think he was to want lecture them on proper mode of exchange. That is essentially racism, to think that your way is the correct one and others are not. So, participate in your way. It ain't right or wrong. If someone judges you for the way you are, it ain't your problem. it is theirs. If someone challenges your position, take the criticisms for what they are. Challenges to opinions is how we learn. Participate in your way, and let others participate in theirs. Andres In a message dated 2/13/2004 1:36:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, melissa_monti@iu13.org writes: > > Reply to: RE: [NIFL-AALPD:1004] Re: Don't cede the realm of research to > All - > > At the risk of sounding whingey, some of this discussion is making me queasy and to feel even less confident about posting any messages - for fear of a "broadside" with my name on it. I am not taking any sides and hate to even embark on any kind of intellectual discussion at this point. > And that is precisely my point. I guess I am a tad put off by what feels like personal attacks. Co-learning is hard, takes a long time, and requires much divergence. As biased, insufficient and exlusionary as you may feel some arguments and presentations are, you might also want to ask and consider how much divergence your positions (for that is what they are) allow, encourage, and tolerate. > I for one, do not feel that I could weigh in on 1/4 of all discussions on this listserv - if only for the self-righteous and pendantic tone of so many postings. I regret that I delete most postings without time to read but, admittedly, I also have come to feel that my opinions won't be as well-rega! > rded and respected by participants. I also desire to avoid a lecture in reply for what I do not know that I do not know. And so I censor myself. That is my choice but several recent postings, like the several below, serve to remind me why I make that choice. > It is unfortunate. Melissa Monti > > Melissa Monti > Professional Developer > IU-13/SEPDC > Instructional Services Dept. > 1110 Enterprise Road > East Petersburg, PA 17520 > tele. (717)519-1012 > fax (717)560-6150 > email: melissa_monti@iu.13.org > > > George Demetrion wrote: > >Agreed, at least with some of the studies: > > > >For a critique of one governmental sponsored study, take a look at: > > > >http://www.nald.ca/FULLTEXT/George/review/cover.htm > > > >Notwithstanding the problems I point out in "Using Research and Reason in > >Education," that study is considerably more sophisticated than Robert > >Sweet's polemic broadside that Tom had highlighted here a few days back. > > > >George > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <AndresMuro@aol.com> > >To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> > >Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 1:01 PM > >Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1003] Re: Don't cede the realm of research to the > >positivists > > > > > >> Trouble is, that thay ain't even positivists. Yesterday we got a phonics > >message that had not even a hint of scientific research. It was all based on > >opinions of one guy, that wrote a long an sensationalist and unscientific > >article. > >> > >> Andres > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 2/13/2004 9:28:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, AWilder106 > >writes: > >> > >> > > >> > George, > >> > > >> > You've got to put "METHOD" in your formulation, "method of data > >gathering" and "method of analysis." Question, method of data gathering, > >method of analysis, conclusion,all fit together like a puzzle. > >> > > >> > A story as evidence? Maybe..of what? How important is the story? A > >story is just a story until it is hitched convincingly to something else. > >You have to tie it in, and in such a way that it illuminates, doesn't just > >sit there. > >> > > >> > This can be done, but to be convincing (valid, reliable) it has to be > >part of an overall study design. My guess is that action research probably > >uses stories well in day to day living and teaching, I know I did, but...it > >is a loooong way from there to the formal research arena, though stories can > >provide a way in to investigating important questions, particularly if the > >same types of stories continue to crop up. > >> > > >> > Personally, I am much more interested in teacher use of action > >research, what problems are formulated and explored. It would be really > >worthwhile to see what problems strike teachers as important and how they go > >about investigating them. This is grass roots, bottom up teacher work,and > >ultimately invaluable. > >> > In my mind, the missing linkage is between this form of > >> > research and the academic kind. > >> > > >> > Andrea > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> go here: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html > >> > > > > > >RFC822 header > >----------------------------------- > > > > Return-Path: <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> > > Received: from relay.iu13.org ([unix socket]) > > by mail.iu13.org (Cyrus v2.1.11-Lancaster-Lebanon-IU13-Mail-Services) >with LMTP; Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:14:21 -0500 > > X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 > > Received: from literacy.nifl.gov (unknown [192.188.111.2]) > > by relay.iu13.org (Postfix) with ESMTP > > id 5EE21470058; Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:14:17 -0500 (EST) > > Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > > by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i1DIDtI26551; > > Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:13:55 -0500 (EST) > > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:13:55 -0500 (EST) > > Message-Id: <000501c3f25a$5dccff00$130101c8@workstation1> > > Errors-To: listowner@nifl.gov > > Reply-To: nifl-aalpd@nifl.gov > > Originator: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov > > Sender: nifl-aalpd@nifl.gov > > Precedence: bulk > > From: "George Demetrion" <george.demetrion@lvgh.org> > > To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> > > Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1004] Re: Don't cede the realm of research to the >positivists > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by > Anastasios Kotsikonas > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > X-Content-Scanned: by IU 13 eMail Scanning > > > > > > > go here: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html
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