Return-Path: <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i1EH4MI26399; Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:04:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:04:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <Sea2-F69LOLP9r70j0J00011a40@hotmail.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Eileen Eckert" <eileeneckert@hotmail.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1024] where's the research for phonics only? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Status: O Content-Length: 6086 Lines: 163 Tom, You said, "He projects that the militancy against the teaching of phonics in the past by teachers is part of the cause. I agree. Any teachers who do not relate to their pupils that letters stand for sounds are not teaching reading correctly." You cited descriptive statistics about the low literacy of those who are on or outside the margins of society: can you show a causal or correlational relationship? You say, "He projects" and "I agree"--that's lobbying for policy by building popular agreement, it's not evidence, and it's certainly not evidence that has been subjected to any kind of rigorous evaluation. Isn't that the criticism that you'd make of the "whole language" camp? Furthermore, where is this anti-phonics militancy now? Can you quote anyone on this list--check the archives--who has said phonics or phonemic awareness is not part of good reading instruction? You are using rhetorical strategies (even if they're Robert Sweet's, you're using them) to frame this as a battle in which you are the oppressed minority championing the poor victims of "educational malpractice." You are using the tactics of a battle that you won several years ago, not to improve educational practice, but to consolidate power and the swing of the pendulum to an extreme, and to bully those who would be beneath you with that consolidation of power. I give the phonics movement credit; I've seen a change in the attention and the quality of instruction of teachers around reading over the last several years. That movement's challenges to the educational establishment have also spurred many on to learn more themselves. Look at the quality of the serious responses you are getting--there are a lot of people on this list using well-researched, well-thought-out methods and practices for teaching reading, and they are including but not limiting themselves to phonics. I hope you'll answer Josh Hayes' questions about your own position on teaching nothing but phonics and how that contributes to students' critical thinking and other life skills. Tom, I think our disagreements go well beyond methods, but I thank you for spurring learning through your messages to the list. I'd also note that it is these "extreme" positions and messages, whether "phonics only" or "God told me George Bush is a moron" that get us emotionally involved enough to think about our own positions, to respond, to engage in dialogue. Another aspect of the "affective screen"? Eileen From: tom zurinskas <tzurinskas@yahoo.com> Reply-To: nifl-aalpd@nifl.gov To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1020] Re: Don't cede the realm of research to the positivists Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:33:27 -0500 (EST) Eileen, It's not my funding you want to cut for these remarks, it's Mr. Sweets, who wrote the article and is a well credentialled in this area, as the article shows. In regard to prisons, he said illiterate adults make up 60% of our prisoners and cites the source. This percentage is significant by any measure. So what is the cause of this illiteracy. I hope you agree, or your funding should be stopped. Tom Z --- Eileen Eckert <eileeneckert@hotmail.com> wrote: > Tom, > Thanks for the descriptive statistics, but I don't > see anything that makes a > case for a cause-effect or even correlation between > phonics instruction as > an isolated variable and improvement in literacy > leading to amelioration of > the above societal ills. If that's the extent of the > research you have to > make your case, I'm sorry but we'll have to cut your > federal funding. > > Eileen > > From: tom zurinskas <tzurinskas@yahoo.com> > Reply-To: nifl-aalpd@nifl.gov > To: Multiple recipients of list > <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> > Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1015] Re: Don't cede the realm > of research to the > positivists > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:55:05 -0500 (EST) > > > --- AndresMuro@aol.com wrote: > > Trouble is, that thay ain't even positivists. > > Yesterday we got a phonics message that had not > even > > a hint of scientific research. It was all based > on > > opinions of one guy, that wrote a long an > > sensationalist and unscientific article. > > > > Andres > > The message on phonics sited this research with > regard > to prison literacy "Even more troubling are the > findings of The Orton Dyslexia Society that > illiterate > adults account for 75 percent of the unemployed, one > third of the mothers receiving AFDC, 85 percent of > the > juveniles who appear in court, 60 percent of prison > inmates, and nearly 40 percent of minority youth.” > Perhaps you missed the citation. > > Tom Z > > ===== > Read all about truespel at truespel.com. > Read “Truespel Book One: Analysis of the Sounds > (Phonemes) of USA English > http://www.1stbooks.com/cgi-bin/1st?partner~1st|type~6|Data1~16593 > Convert text to truespel USA accent by copy/pasting > it at: > http://www.foreignword.com/dictionary/truespel/transpel.htm > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing > online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet > Software maximize your > online time. > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ > ===== Read all about truespel at truespel.com. Read “Truespel Book One: Analysis of the Sounds (Phonemes) of USA English http://www.1stbooks.com/cgi-bin/1st?partner~1st|type~6|Data1~16593 Convert text to truespel USA accent by copy/pasting it at: http://www.foreignword.com/dictionary/truespel/transpel.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _________________________________________________________________ Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology." http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
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