Return-Path: <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i1EM6cI00111; Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:06:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:06:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <51B73E7D.4BA3C65A.0AB94E44@aol.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: AndresMuro@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1029] Re: Don't cede the realm of research to the positivists X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Status: O Content-Length: 4819 Lines: 144 Tom: I am not sure that I understand. You mean to tell me that I am R U D E as in the sound "rood" or as in the sound "rudea" You know, I'm not only rude, but I am also ignorant and dumb. As much as I try to understand your logic, I can't . My be, since you don't want to, someone in the group that understands it, can. Please do it slowly. So far, what I got is that there are a lot of people with limited literacy skills. You argue that this is because of lack of phonics. However, you provide no evidence that illiteracy is due to lack of phonics. Maybe there is a metaphysical connection that my simple, rigid, and stubborn mind fails to grasp. I think that people that cannot read properly are dyslexic. People that cannot spell properly are dysgraphic. Andres In a message dated 2/14/2004 4:12:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, tom zurinskas <tzurinskas@yahoo.com> writes: >Andres, > >You're wrong on many counts here. Spelling is a >problem. There are twice as many dislexics in >languages like English than in more phonetically >spelled languages like Italian. This is the last I'll >discuss it with you. I don't like to deal with rude >people. Read this slowly R-U-D-E. > >Tom Z > > >--- AndresMuro@aol.com wrote: >> Tom: I am not disputing the facts that you state >> below, nor your citation. What I am saying is that >> you don't have one shread of evidence to say that >> people have literacy problems because they learned >> with phonics vs sight word reading. >> >> According to the National Adult Literacy Survey >> (NALS) there are approximately 40 million adults who >> score in the lowest literacy level and another 40 >> who score in the second lowest. However, their >> problem is not that they cannot read single words >> correctly nor spell properly. It is that they cannot >> read critically. Let me say it again slowly. They >> cannot read C R I T I C A L L Y. >> >> Phonics does not teach people to read critically. It >> simply teaches people how to recognize sound >> patterns and spell them correctly. Spelling is N O T >> the problem. Reading C R I T I C A L L Y is. >> >> Phonics does not teach people how to read C R I T I >> C A L L Y. >> >> If you want to understand the theory of how phonics >> and sight word recogniton works, refer to my >> previous posting. I tried to simplify it as much as >> possible for people w/o background in language >> acquisition and processing. If there is any part of >> the message that you did not understand, please let >> me know so that I can clarify it for you. >> >> So, you can cite lots of references about illiteracy >> and everyone here agrees with you. What people >> dispute is the claim that the porblem is lack of >> phonics instruction, and the solution is phonics >> instruction. >> >> Andres >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 2/13/2004 5:55:06 PM Eastern >> Standard Time, tom zurinskas <tzurinskas@yahoo.com> >> writes: >> >> > >> >--- AndresMuro@aol.com wrote: >> >> Trouble is, that thay ain't even positivists. >> >> Yesterday we got a phonics message that had not >> even >> >> a hint of scientific research. It was all based >> on >> >> opinions of one guy, that wrote a long an >> >> sensationalist and unscientific article. >> >> >> >> Andres >> > >> >The message on phonics sited this research with >> regard >> >to prison literacy "Even more troubling are the >> >findings of The Orton Dyslexia Society that >> illiterate >> >adults account for 75 percent of the unemployed, >> one >> >third of the mothers receiving AFDC, 85 percent of >> the >> >juveniles who appear in court, 60 percent of prison >> >inmates, and nearly 40 percent of minority youth.” >> >Perhaps you missed the citation. >> > >> >Tom Z >> > >> >===== >> >Read all about truespel at truespel.com. >> >Read “Truespel Book One: Analysis of the Sounds >> (Phonemes) of USA English >> >>http://www.1stbooks.com/cgi-bin/1st?partner~1st|type~6|Data1~16593 >> >Convert text to truespel USA accent by copy/pasting >> it at: >> >http://www.foreignword.com/dictionary/truespel/transpel.htm >> > >> > >> >__________________________________ >> >Do you Yahoo!? >> >Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing >> online. >> >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html >> > >> >> >> -- >> go here: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html >> > > >===== >Read all about truespel at truespel.com. >Read “Truespel Book One: Analysis of the Sounds (Phonemes) of USA English >http://www.1stbooks.com/cgi-bin/1st?partner~1st|type~6|Data1~16593 >Convert text to truespel USA accent by copy/pasting it at: http://www.foreignword.com/dictionary/truespel/transpel.htm > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > -- go here: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html
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