Return-Path: <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i1IGA1I22478; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:10:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:10:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <009e01c3f638$d1a5c790$0b00a8c0@DDQPYT21> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Art LaChance" <arthur@ellijay.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1060] Re: student persistence X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 11627 Lines: 277 I agree completely Melissa, but unfortunately not all adult literacy teachers understand what you and I understand nor have they the option of awareness training that you and I have garnered over time. And not many have time to digest all the varied publications available. My focus is that the state agencies should take this ball and run with it, especially if it has been recommended as training ground by the venerable NCSALL. Thanks for the link. Art ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Monti" <melissa_monti@iu13.org> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 10:39 AM Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1057] student persistence > Reply to: student persistence > Art - > > Student persistence and psychology is also a significant interest of mine. I have often felt that my background in psychology, counseling, and social work is very helpful to me when working with adult students - both in knowing what is my domain as a teacher/facilitator. Also, it helps in distinguishing when to "just listen" and when to refer a student to a counselor or other social service provider. Sometimes I have to actively remind myself that I am no longer a social worker/counselor. In the classroom, I have done several things to help students balance the demands of life and learning - whether or not they follow through is up to them. Some of those things are: have students develop a support network - formal or informal, pair new students with mentors, have a student-created Social Service referral book, discuss problems and solutions as instructional content. > As this relates to PD - Pennsylvania has a training module for student case management that addresses many of the things a program and teachers to can do to increase student persistence. You might think about searching it out or developing one for your own agency. Do other states have similar training modules? > Regarding current research, I have included below a link to an October 2002 Focus On Basics which in dedicated to these issues. In particular, the work of Comings and Cuban is quite informative. > http://ncsall.gse.harvard.edu/fob/2002/learner.html > > Good luck. It's an uphill battle. You can only provide some tools. What the students do with the tools is up to them. One last note about "persistence" versus "retention" - I choose to use the term persistence rather than retention because it is active as opposed to passive. I believe that we do not retain our students. We might retain water, baggage, money but we do not other people. People persist on their own accord. While this does not imply that there are not things we can do to improve our rates of persistence, and encourage/enable students to persist, it does place the responsibility for the learning and persistence with the students. I feel that this is a powerful interpretation. It not only places the responsibility for the learning and persistence with the student, it also squarely awards the successes with the students. We as teachers are facilitators of a process. We do need to foster the ability to persist but we also need to acknowledge that it is t! > he ACTION of a student that either is persistent or disengaged. To some this may be semantics but I see it as a critical difference. What do you think? > > Last for today... Melissa > > > > Art LaChance wrote: > >David, Tom, Andres, > > > >I hate to jump in here in the middle of this but........ > > > >I've discovered several things over the years. One being that even though a > >person may in fact have the structural/sensory capacity to "learn" there can > >be overwhelming contributing issues that confound the learning processes > >that most likely are not organic. > >The tie-breaker in 90% + of all situations I've seen in vocational rehab and > >in adult lit is the psychology of the student. Where is the "Emotional > >Literacy" (coined by Anthony Gabriel-New Orleans - on the NLA list several > >days ago) capacity of the student in relation to accomplishing the academic > >work required for remediation. That is the question. While the information > >processing equipment may in fact be well within the normal range and quite > >useable it may be derailed and rendered totally ineffective by a condition > >whose symptoms are eerily similar to those presented by PTSD, as indicated > >in the DSM IV. > > > >My thoughts are that the average adult literacy teacher has only a > >smattering of psychology training or awareness that they've achieved as part > >of mandated curriculum in college, IF there is a college credit or degree > >requirement for the job they're in. > > > >I would strongly suspect that should some investigative body take a good > >long hard look at the successful adult literacy classrooms and/or teachers > >they will find an inate ability to address this issue residing within those > >teachers and/or staff. The end result being to encourage the student to > >extend themselves into the unknown and risk the failure they are so > >sensitive towards. I'm not talking about the standard calling all teachers > >into an auditorium and passing out questionaires or an abbreviated telephone > >interview - I'm talking about real-life long term observations into the > >methodology utilized by those successful teachers IN the classroom, again > >over time. > > > >The PD that is being served up looks suspiciously like somebody's > >interpretation of somebody elses "research" that was accomplished through > >associating past and present known theories with some specific curriculum > >delivery - ad infinitum. And no viable conclusion yet, or we wouldn't be > >looking still. Nobody that I know of has approached the issue of examining > >deeply into the situations where a child or adult who's been informally OR > >formally diagnosed as LD etc, or any suggestions of same, has circumvented > >that "disability" and learned to read or write or do math. What we've done > >is pass it off as anecdotal and labeled it as probably a sad mistake by the > >professionals involved- assigned it a rationale and gone on with life - ahhh > >too bad. What is the underlying factor that provided the impetus for the > >student to break through that internal resistance and open up to the threat > >of failure thence to become successful doing what the role models in their > >life told them was impossible for them ? This is the key, this is the > >underlying factor, this is the turning point, in teaching and in learning. > >Curriculum style matters but it represents not a fraction of the impact of > >the internal emotional barriers set up by those who fear non-acceptance or > >failure. To recognize it and deal with it effectively in somebody else is > >critical. Big problem especially when most of us have difficulty > >recognizing who we are - really. > > > >Art > > > > > >Art LaChance > >Gilmer Learning Center > >Ellijay, GA > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Rosen" <djrosen@comcast.net> > >To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> > >Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:49 AM > >Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1050] Re: Light, not heat > > > > > >> Tom, > >> > >> Andres Muro has responded to my request with serious arguments and > >> citations. George Demetrion has added his own arguments and citations. > >> I, and perhaps others, would be interested to hear yours. If you > >> disagree with Andres and or George, what do you disagree with? Why? > >> What evidence do you have from theory or research? And please, on this > >> list, connect your arguments and evidence with recommendations for > >> professional development. > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> David > >> > >> David J. Rosen > >> djrosen@comcast.net > >> > >> On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 09:31 PM, David Rosen wrote: > >> > >> > Andres and Tom, > >> > > >> > If you want me -- and very likely other NIFL-AALPD readers -- to pay > >> > attention to your arguments, please use reason and cite evidence. > >> > Abjure ad hominem arguments, sweeping generalizations, sarcasm, and > >> > shouting (capitalized words are considered shouting in the e-list > >> > environment.) > >> > > >> > Tom, concisely, what are your arguments, and what is your evidence, > >> > especially scientifically-based evidence which you may have for your > >> > arguments about reading and spelling as they apply to adults. What > >> > scientifically-based research on adults is the basis of your (and > >> > Robert Sweet's) arguments? Are you arguing, for example, that the > >> > reason that _all_ adults in America cannot read is that they did not > >> > have as children (and now as adults do not have) teachers who were > >> > well trained in phonics methods? (If not all? Then how many, what > >> > percent? What's your evidence?) > >> > > >> > Andres, are you saying that phonics-based approaches will not be of > >> > significant help to dyslexic adults who have difficulty decoding > >> > words, or are you saying that this is just one group of adults who > >> > have reading difficulty and that there are others? Lay it out for us. > >> > What are the various causes of adult reading difficulty? What's your > >> > evidence? > >> > > >> > And please, if you can, tell us what you think the implications of > >> > your arguments are for staff development, the focus of this list. How > >> > should we be "training" teachers of native English speaking adults who > >> > cannot read at all or who are reading at NALS Level 1 for example? > >> > Should the training be different for teachers of adults who are > >> > learning English, SPL 1-3, for example? What should teachers of > >> > adults know and be able to do to help adults who can read (who have > >> > decoding skills, some automaticity, and a fairly good vocabulary) but > >> > who cannot read well, or critically? > >> > > >> > Shed some light, please. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > > >> > David J. Rosen > >> > djrosen@comcast,net > >> > > >> > > > > > >RFC822 header > >----------------------------------- > > > > Return-Path: <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> > > Received: from relay.iu13.org ([unix socket]) > > by mail.iu13.org (Cyrus v2.1.11-Lancaster-Lebanon-IU13-Mail-Services) >with LMTP; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:19:24 -0500 > > X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 > > Received: from literacy.nifl.gov (unknown [192.188.111.2]) > > by relay.iu13.org (Postfix) with ESMTP > > id 67114470186; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:19:19 -0500 (EST) > > Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > > by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i1IEFfI18485; > > Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:15:41 -0500 (EST) > > Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:15:41 -0500 (EST) > > Message-Id: <003a01c3f629$747c96c0$0b00a8c0@DDQPYT21> > > Errors-To: listowner@nifl.gov > > Reply-To: nifl-aalpd@nifl.gov > > Originator: nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov > > Sender: nifl-aalpd@nifl.gov > > Precedence: bulk > > From: "Art LaChance" <arthur@ellijay.com> > > To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-aalpd@literacy.nifl.gov> > > Subject: [NIFL-AALPD:1054] Re: Light, not heat > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > X-Content-Scanned: by IU 13 eMail Scanning > > > Melissa Monti > Professional Developer > IU-13/SEPDC > Instructional Services Dept. > 1110 Enterprise Road > East Petersburg, PA 17520 > tele. (717)519-1012 > fax (717)560-6150 > email: melissa_monti@iu.13.org > > >
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