Return-Path: <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i2KL2JI00205; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:02:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:02:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <001601c40e8b$9b1c9080$0302a8c0@wtrbct.adelphia.net> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Bonnie Odiorne" <bonniesophia@adelphia.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:404] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 16075 Lines: 430 As I understand it, CASAS never had curriculum per se, just curriculum and materials matrices, saying where in published materials CASAS competencies are taught. Warmest Regards, Bonnie Odiorne Ph.D Program Faciliator Working Smart Computers 4 Kids Silas Bronson Library Information Technology Center Waterbury, CT Integrating Technology, ABE and ESL Instruction -----Original Message----- From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Eileen Eckert Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 6:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:402] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment? Tanya, I agree with you that if a test is not valid another method of assessment should be used--would that it were so! But what if that's not possible? For example, I worked in a state that had adopted CASAS for assessment, but not for curriculum. CASAS has--or had--curriculum to teach to the competencies addressed on the assessment, but this state didn't standardize curriculum, just assessment. So, where programs had curriculum not in alignment with CASAS, the test was not assessing what students had been taught and may have learned. Not valid, right? Are you saying that in circumstances in which teachers are mandated to use assessments that are not valid, the problem lies with the teacher if s/he does not adhere to testing procedures? It seems to me that: 1. If there is a problem with teachers, it's not in noncompliance but rather in our usual acceptance of authority and compliance with rules and policies we know in our hearts are not only wrong, but often destructive to students, and 2. The problem of validity/reliability cannot be reduced to blaming the teacher for mis-administering the test and thereby ruining the reliability of scores whose validity was already compromised by not matching instruction and learning. And all this doesn't even begin to address the question of transfer of knowledge and skill to "real-life" situations, which standardized testing doesn't touch. Eileen From: ttweeton@comcast.net Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:397] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:50:18 -0500 (EST) Is it possible to say someone doesn't do their job well based simply on how >they give standardized tests? Eileen, let's say that they don't do certain aspects of their job very well. One can't pick and choose how one wants to administer official tests. Either one follows the recommended procedures or why not choose another test, or "make your own" ? That is just about what you are doing if you don't follow the test procedures. And who exactly are you kidding when you don't? I cannot honestly see any rationale for NOT administering official tests the way they were intended to be used.If teachers are trained in assessment procedures they understand that. That they still refuse to do what is expected is a problem.........with them. Tanya Tweeton ESOL and GED Fort Lauderdale,Florida > Hi Eilleen, > > Thanks for your reply. Yes, this is an interesting quandry: really, > standardization is supposed to produce a level playing field. That's what > it's really all about. But when you are asked to use and report with tests > that don't seem to be exactly appropriate for particular purposes, or whose > results are not really all that useful in the classroom (more useful at the > accountability level), then it becomes pretty hard to understand why timing, > and 'complete battery' issues are relevant. > > That's our lot right now - together we're changing and building our system. > It's a slow process. > > Knowledgeable versus fully trained - GREAT question - I would love to hear > your answers!!! What do you think? > > marie cora > NIFL Assessment List Moderator > > > >From: "Eileen Eckert" <eileeneckert@hotmail.com> > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:386] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment? > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:47:50 -0500 (EST) > > > >Hi Tanya and others, > >Actually, I think some of the people who do this are highly knowledgeable > >about assessment. For the record, I'm not one of those who mis-administers > >standardized tests (I don't have to give them at all right now, lucky me). > >However, I think the rationale goes, if I have to give a standardized test > >that by its nature is not going to yield meaningful results because it's > >not really valid for this particular use, then I don't really care if it > >gives results that are also not reliable, so I'm going to do what I think > >is best for my students whether that means complying with or breaking the > >rules. > > > >Is it possible to say someone doesn't do their job well based simply on how > >they give standardized tests? > > > >And is "knowledgeable" about assessment the same as "fully trained"? > > > >By the way, I'm new to this list but not NIFL lists in general, and I often > >play the devil's advocate, but I am really trying to add to some important > >discussion. I hope you'll take my points in the spirit of dialogue in which > >they are intended! > > > >Eileen > > > > > > > > > > > >From: ttweeton@comcast.net > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:385] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment? > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:13:35 -0500 (EST) > > > >(For example, some programs > >and/or teachers disregard time limits or give only a part of a test.) > > > > There will always be those teachers who don't do their jobs well. > >Training in Assessment procedures is the key I would think. If these > >teachers were fully trained they wouldn't pull this . > >Tanya Tweeton > >ESOL and GED > >Fort Lauderdale, Florida > > > How does teacher knowledge of assessment affect acceptance of testing > > > mandates and compliance with testing mandates? (For example, some > >programs > > > and/or teachers disregard time limits or give only a part of a test.) > > > > > > > > > From: "Marie Cora" <mariecora@hotmail.com> > > > Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > > > To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:380] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment? > > > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:11:13 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > Hi Virginia, > > > > > > I absolutely agree. That's not always easy with some of the commercial > > > tests we are mandated to use, don't you think? > > > > > > marie cora > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator > > > > > > > > > >From: "Virginia Tardaewether" <tarv@chemeketa.edu> > > > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:376] Re: Teacher Qualifications in > >Assessment? > > > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:22:23 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > > >I think it is important that the instuctor has the skills to link > > > >instruction to assessment so that assessment is integral to the > >program. > > > >This does not mean teaching to the test, whatever it might be. > > > >Instructors should use the assessment to inform and design instruction > > > >that integrates needs, skills, goals to the assessment results. > > > >Va > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov] On > > > >Behalf Of ttweeton@comcast.net > > > >Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 07:50 > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:367] Re: Teacher Qualifications in > >Assessment? > > > > > > > > > > > >Do you feel that a solid background in assessment is an essential > > > > > > qualification for an ABE practitioner? What are the assessment > > > > > > > >Maria, we are required to use the TABE 7 and 8 to test progress at the > > > >ABE levels.We use TABE 8 at entry and TABE 7 after six weeks if we feel > > > >that progress has been made and the student can progress to the next > > > >level. Then we can collect the Literacy Completion point from the > > > >student that pays for our programs if the students passes the level > > > >test..Therefore there is no lee way to use other tests. A knowledge of > > > >assessment procedures in general is of course important but it is not > > > >critical for a teacher in our ABE programs in Broward county. > > > > > > > >Tanya Tweeton > > > >ESOL and GED > > > >Fort Lauderdale, Florida > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > Wow, Kate, this is great stuff. Where did you complete your MA? > > > > > Those 4 > > > > > points you describe are certainly fundamentals of assessment > > > >knowledge. It > > > > > would be great if all educational programs required practitioners to > > > >have a > > > > > good sense of these. > > > > > > > > > > Kate notes that: > > > > > > > > > > >Over time, I have observed that there is a difference between > > > > > >instructors > > > > > >who > > > > > >have studied assessment and those who have not. We have > >experienced > > > >our > > > > > >best > > > > > >levels of interrater reliability when all testers on the staff have > > > >equal > > > > > >academic background in assessment. > > > > > > > > > > Do others have this same experience? > > > > > > > > > > Does everyone understand concepts of interrater reliability and why > > > > > this > > > > > might be important? How about the other concepts that Kate > >outlines: > > > >V & > > > > > R; adhering to tenets of standardization and exactly what > > > >standardizing > > > > > means; using data for program improvement? > > > > > > > > > > Do people feel that they have enough information or have places > >where > > > > > they > > > > > can access this information? > > > > > > > > > > What pieces of assessment do you feel you're missing and would like > > > > > more of? > > > > > > > > > > This area that Kate has responded to is a high priority for myself - > > > > > my > > > > > grand wish is for all ABE practiitoners to have a good foundation in > > > >at > > > > > least the elements that Kate has outlined above. > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > marie > > > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "kate.diggins" <kate.diggins@slc.k12.ut.us> > > > > > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > > > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:360] Re: Teacher Qualifications in > > > > > >Assessment? > > > > > >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:39:21 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi, Maria. > > > > > > > > > > > >We use the BEST (and now, the BEST Plus) at our school. As part of > > > > > >my MA, > > > > > >I > > > > > >took a couple of classes in assessment(one in test design and > > > >evaluation, > > > > > >and > > > > > >one in statistics). I wouldn't say that I am an expert by any > >means, > > > >but > > > > > >these classes provided me with the following fundamantals: > > > > > > > > > > > >1. An understanding of "validity", "reliability" and some skills > >to > > > > > >ascertain the quality of a test before we use it. > > > > > > > > > > > >2. An appreciation of "standardization" as a concept, and how > > > > > >standardized testing is a valuable tool both in student assessment > > > > > >and program evaluation. > > > > > > > > > > > >3. A basic knowledge of statistics and how to translate a > > > > > >spread-sheet of data into usable prose about a program. > > > > > > > > > > > >4. An understanding of which extraneous variables need to be > > > > > >controlled in order for a test to be administered fairly, and how > >to > > > > > >control these variables. > > > > > > > > > > > >Over time, I have observed that there is a difference between > > > > > >instructors > > > > > >who > > > > > >have studied assessment and those who have not. We have > >experienced > > > >our > > > > > >best > > > > > >levels of interrater reliability when all testers on the staff have > > > >equal > > > > > >academic background in assessment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- Original Message ----------- > > > > > >From: "Marie Cora" <mariecora@hotmail.com> > > > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > > > >Sent: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:18:29 -0500 (EST) > > > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:358] Teacher Qualifications in > >Assessment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was wondering what you all thought of Lisa Soricone's second > > > > > > > question regarding teacher qualification - but in the area of > > > > > >assessment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) teacher qualification > > > > > > > We are trying to move beyond simply saying that programs need to > > > > > > > hired "qualified staff." What exactly does it mean to be a > > > > > > > qualified teacher/administrator/counselor in ABE? More > > > > > > > specifically, what do you consider the most essential > > > > > > > qualifications for ABE instructors in general? GED instructors? > > > > > > > ESOL instructors? ABE administrators? ABE counselors? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As an assessment specialist, I have found that mandates and > > > > > > > changes are demanded much too quickly for the majority of > > > > > > > practitioners to stay with or ahead of the learning curve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you feel that a solid background in assessment is an > >essential > > > > > > > qualification for an ABE practitioner? What are the assessment > > > > > > > basics that you want teachers (and programs managers) to know in > > > > > > > order to feel prepared in their work? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or this question: If a teacher does not have a good sense of > > > > > > > assessment basics, but administers the TABE or BEST test to > > > > > > > students, is this an issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > marie cora > > > > > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > > > > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > > >------- End of Original Message ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low > >as > > > > > $29.95/month. > >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by > > > ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected > >and > > > safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Is your PC infected? 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