Return-Path: <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i2N2RSI21476; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:27:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:27:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <88EAF3512A55DF46B06B1954AEF73F74015BE944@dc1ex2.air.org> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Condelli, Larry" <LCondelli@air.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:412] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment/NRS X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 18133 Lines: 492 Hi Marie and Everyone -- The NRS web site is a good source for all of the information about the NRS. There is also another web site, http://www.nrsonline.org, that has short courses on NRS requirements. However, I would suggest that for specific questions about assessment in your state that you contact your state office first. Every state has to set assessment policy that conforms to NRS guidelines, but there are some variations across states, such as what tests are allowed, when to pre- and posttest, who has to be assessed, etc. You state is the best source of this information for your program. -----Original Message----- From: Marie Cora [mailto:mariecora@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 6:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:400] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment/NRS Hi Tanya and everyone, I'm not positive if your question is "what is the NRS" or "use of exit scores" so I'll try to answer both (and Larry, are you out there reading? If so, you can chime in and help us understand the NRS further if my explanation doesn't do justice!) The NRS - National Reporting System - is the U.S. mechanism for collecting information and data via a certain group of assessments for ABE/ESOL. If you receive federal dollars in your state, and your state distributes them to your program, then you must report using one of those identified tests, or one that has been approved by the federal government (is that last part correct Larry?). This is a step in the process of developing our national system for adult education. You can get the whole meal deal at http://literacy.kent.edu/Midwest/assessment/ and click on Manager/Administrator Resources....ok, you can also go directly to http://www.nrsweb.org/ but I had to plug my site first. So that's a bit about the NRS. What I meant by "can you use exit scores" - I was wondering if the tests you have developed/are using are acceptable for the NRS system. For example, I know that TABE and BEST/BEST Plus are 2 such assessments OK'd by the NRS to use and then report with. But I don't know if your test is ok to do that with. Gosh, did that make sense? Tell me if that helps you understand - and certainly ask more questions. BTW, let me introduce my friend Larry who I mentioned above: Larry Condelli is the principal investigator/manager/developer of the NRS system. I'm sure I'm not doing justice to your title (sorry!), but the point is that he can answer any questions that folks might have about the system. marie cora NIFL Assessment List Moderator >From: ttweeton@comcast.net >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:396] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment? >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:49:23 -0500 (EST) > > Maria says "can you use your exit scores for the NRS? Now what is that? >Tanya > > Hi, > > > > So for the county tests, can you use your exit scores for the NRS? Or >how > > does that work? > > > > FL and Mass I guess are both looking to build their own tests - which is > > exciting - any other states out there trying to do that/doing that now? > > > > I recently had a discussion with a person who was interested in finding >out > > which states were aligning their standards to the NRS - which is >different > > than test development but still in the same vain of trying to get ducks >in a > > row. Are folks involved in that sort of process at all? > > > > Yeah, math. Anyone out there have some advice on decent tests for math? > I > > do believe that Mass. is developing a math test together with the CEA > > (Center for Educational Assessment, UMASS) because the state was so very > > dissappointed with the lack of math resources out there.....stay tuned >until > > next year (I think) for more info on the development of that. > > > > marie cora > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator > > > > > > >From: ttweeton@comcast.net > > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:384] Re: Teacher Qualifications in >Assessment? > > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:09:19 -0500 (EST) > > > > > >Maria, a correction here. WE in the county have developed our own exit > > >level tests. The state of Florida is interested and invited Broward to > > >help develp tests for the state but as yet there is nothing official. > > > In answer to another comment made about what to teach to sucessfully >pass > > >the tests, the materials we use for ABE or GED students are the ones >the > > >book companies publish. Steck Vaughn materials and Comtemporary are > > >matched to the TABE levels E M D A. But there are others. As with all > > >materials ,some are better , some are worse (ok awful in some >instances, I > > >am having trouble with certain Math materials which I don't care for > > >.......LOTS of mistakes in the answer key? Can't imagine what the > > >publishers are doing letting material like that be published. > > > > > >Tanya Tweeton > > >ESOL and GED > > >Fort Lauderdale, Florida > > > > Hi again Tanya, > > > > > > > > You mentioned that FL has developed exit level ESOL tests - can you >tell > > >us > > > > more about that? Sound very interesting - who was involved? what >are > > >they > > > > like? > > > > > > > > Also - I know that some teachers/students in Mass. have difficulty >using > > >the > > > > TABE with a GED class in so far as it's hard to get exit test scores > > >because > > > > the students are then past the TABE and onto the GED. Have you > > >experienced > > > > that at all? > > > > > > > > marie cora > > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: ttweeton@comcast.net > > > > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:370] Re: Teacher Qualifications in > > >Assessment? > > > > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:08:56 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > > > > > Maria, The CASAS is administered to incoming ESOL students by a > > >tester in > > > > >our county programs. I don't know if this is typical of all >programs > > >in > > > > >the county but as far as I know it is. Most times an ESOL program >has > > >the > > > > >luxury of a tester for the CASAS. Florida had developed exit >level > > >ESOL > > > > >tests. When our students are ready we send them to the tester > > > > >again(obviously impartial) who administers the exit level tests. > > > > > The TABE is given to incoming GED students. Some times a GED >program > > >has > > > > >a tester as well. Other times it is expected that the teacher > > >administer > > > > >the TABE as I do in my day GED program. I was trained in the use of >the > > > > >TABE. It was not just thrown on me .It is a requirement that ALL > > >teachers > > > > >in GED/ABE go thru this training. If you are talking about other > > > > >standardized tests, we do not use them in these adult program. We >do > > >use > > > > >something called the SAMs(sorry can't recall the correct name for >the > > > > >acronym at the moment because I'm having a senior moment......) >but > > >this > > > > >takes the place of the TABE 7 if we have already used the TABE 7 >once > > >and > > > > >need something else to confirm that the student has made progress. > > > > >We start with the TABE 8 in GED/ABE first upon entry into the >programs > > > > >because we feel that it is a more difficult test than TABE 7. If a > > >student > > > > >passes TABE 7 he/ she certainly has made progress( our opinion....) >.If > > >not > > > > >we will use the SAMs on them again a few weeks later. > > > > > > > > > >Tanya Tweeton > > > > >GED and ESOL program > > > > >Fort Lauderdale, Florida > > > > > > Hi Tanya and others, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your reply. In terms of administering the TABE, >which > > >has > > > > > > standardization requirements, do you have training or monitoring >of > > >some > > > > > > sort that ensures the test administrators (I don't know if your > > >teachers > > > > >do > > > > > > the testing or other staff) are carrying out the testing > > >appropriately? > > > > >How > > > > > > do others take care of standardization requirements within their > > > > >programs? > > > > > > I know that some standardized tests are more complex than >others. > > > > > > marie cora > > > > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: ttweeton@comcast.net > > > > > > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > > > > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ><nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:367] Re: Teacher Qualifications in > > > > >Assessment? > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:49:28 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Do you feel that a solid background in assessment is an >essential > > > > > > > > > qualification for an ABE practitioner? What are the >assessment > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Maria, we are required to use the TABE 7 and 8 to test progress >at > > >the > > > > >ABE > > > > > > >levels.We use TABE 8 at entry and TABE 7 after six weeks if we >feel > > > > >that > > > > > > >progress has been made and the student can progress to the next > > >level. > > > > >Then > > > > > > > we can collect the Literacy Completion point from the student > > >that > > > > >pays > > > > > > >for our programs if the students passes the level >test..Therefore > > >there > > > > >is > > > > > > >no lee way to use other tests. A knowledge of assessment >procedures > > >in > > > > > > >general is of course important but it is not critical for a >teacher > > >in > > > > >our > > > > > > >ABE programs in Broward county. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Tanya Tweeton > > > > > > >ESOL and GED > > > > > > >Fort Lauderdale, Florida > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, Kate, this is great stuff. Where did you complete your >MA? > > > > >Those > > > > > > >4 > > > > > > > > points you describe are certainly fundamentals of assessment > > > > >knowledge. > > > > > > >It > > > > > > > > would be great if all educational programs required > > >practitioners to > > > > > > >have a > > > > > > > > good sense of these. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kate notes that: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Over time, I have observed that there is a difference >between > > > > > > >instructors > > > > > > > > >who > > > > > > > > >have studied assessment and those who have not. We have > > > > >experienced > > > > > > >our > > > > > > > > >best > > > > > > > > >levels of interrater reliability when all testers on the >staff > > >have > > > > > > >equal > > > > > > > > >academic background in assessment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do others have this same experience? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does everyone understand concepts of interrater reliability >and > > >why > > > > >this > > > > > > > > might be important? How about the other concepts that Kate > > > > >outlines: V > > > > > > >& > > > > > > > > R; adhering to tenets of standardization and exactly what > > > > >standardizing > > > > > > > > means; using data for program improvement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do people feel that they have enough information or have >places > > > > >where > > > > > > >they > > > > > > > > can access this information? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What pieces of assessment do you feel you're missing and >would > > >like > > > > >more > > > > > > >of? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This area that Kate has responded to is a high priority for > > >myself - > > > > >my > > > > > > > > grand wish is for all ABE practiitoners to have a good > > >foundation in > > > > >at > > > > > > > > least the elements that Kate has outlined above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > marie > > > > > > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "kate.diggins" <kate.diggins@slc.k12.ut.us> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > > > > > > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list > > ><nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:360] Re: Teacher Qualifications >in > > > > > > >Assessment? > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:39:21 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi, Maria. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We use the BEST (and now, the BEST Plus) at our school. As > > >part of > > > > >my > > > > > > >MA, > > > > > > > > >I > > > > > > > > >took a couple of classes in assessment(one in test design >and > > > > > > >evaluation, > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > >one in statistics). I wouldn't say that I am an expert by >any > > > > >means, > > > > > > >but > > > > > > > > >these classes provided me with the following fundamantals: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >1. An understanding of "validity", "reliability" and some > > >skills > > > > >to > > > > > > > > >ascertain the quality of a test before we use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2. An appreciation of "standardization" as a concept, and >how > > > > > > >standardized > > > > > > > > >testing is a valuable tool both in student assessment and > > >program > > > > > > > > >evaluation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >3. A basic knowledge of statistics and how to translate a > > > > >spread-sheet > > > > > > >of > > > > > > > > >data into usable prose about a program. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >4. An understanding of which extraneous variables need to >be > > > > > > >controlled in > > > > > > > > >order for a test to be administered fairly, and how to >control > > > > >these > > > > > > > > >variables. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Over time, I have observed that there is a difference >between > > > > > > >instructors > > > > > > > > >who > > > > > > > > >have studied assessment and those who have not. We have > > > > >experienced > > > > > > >our > > > > > > > > >best > > > > > > > > >levels of interrater reliability when all testers on the >staff > > >have > > > > > > >equal > > > > > > > > >academic background in assessment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- Original Message ----------- > > > > > > > > >From: "Marie Cora" <mariecora@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list > > ><nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > > > > > > >Sent: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:18:29 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:358] Teacher Qualifications in > > > > >Assessment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was wondering what you all thought of Lisa Soricone's > > >second > > > > > > > > > > question regarding teacher qualification - but in the >area > > >of > > > > > > > > >assessment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) teacher qualification > > > > > > > > > > We are trying to move beyond simply saying that programs > > >need to > > > > > > > > > > hired "qualified staff." What exactly does it mean to be >a > > > > >qualified > > > > > > > > > > teacher/administrator/counselor in ABE? More >specifically, > > >what > > > > >do > > > > > > > > > > you consider the most essential qualifications for ABE > > > > >instructors > > > > > > > > > > in general? GED instructors? ESOL instructors? ABE > > > > >administrators? > > > > > > > > > > ABE counselors? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As an assessment specialist, I have found that mandates >and > > > > >changes > > > > > > > > > > are demanded much too quickly for the majority of > > >practitioners > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > stay with or ahead of the learning curve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you feel that a solid background in assessment is an > > > > >essential > > > > > > > > > > qualification for an ABE practitioner? What are the > > >assessment > > > > > > > > > > basics that you want teachers (and programs managers) to > > >know in > > > > > > > > > > order to feel prepared in their work? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or this question: If a teacher does not have a good >sense > > >of > > > > > > > > > > assessment basics, but administers the TABE or BEST test >to > > > > > > >students, > > > > > > > > > > is this an issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > marie cora > > > > > > > > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it >now! > > > > > > > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > >------- End of Original Message ------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Frustrated with dial-up? 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