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From: "Don Seaman" <dseaman@tamu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:432] RE: Capturing the hard to capture
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Marie: One way to assess some of the "non-test" information is with the use
of a written survey. In Even Start, we assess changes in behavior of
parents' in that manner. If the parent cannot read the survey form when
enrolling, it is read to the individual in English or Spanish. Several
months later, in many cases, the individual can usually read most or all of
it herself, but that progress can also be measured by an assessment
instrument.
We also check for changes in "self-reported" behavior of parents:
increased reading for themselves or for their children;
paying more attention to labels when shopping or looking for "specials"
which they did not do before; or
acquiring a driver's license (as opposed to driving without one which
many do).
I realize that some folks do not put much value in "self-report" data, but
how else can we acquire such information - follow folks around all day. I
personally feel that self-report information, acquired correctly, can be as
valid as formal assessment data, especially when the test is used
inappropriately or with an inappropriate audience.
Behavioral changes usually reflect changes in attitudes or values that often
cannot be measured by a formal assessment instrument. In addition, we ask
staff to document other changes such as coming to class "on time", calling
when someone cannot attend due to the many problems that arise almost daily.
There are many ways to add to the quantitative data base that reflects
changes in a program.
These kinds of assessments require planning, extra time and work, and
constant evaluation in regard to their effectiveness, etc. However, they
also can help document the quality of a program while providing valuable
information to program directors and other staff.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marie Cora" <mariecora@hotmail.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:02 AM
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:430] RE: Capturing the hard to capture
> Hi Eileen,
>
> So you're saying that a certain body of knowledge might be more than what
> you can capture on paper, for example. In other words, there are aspects
of
> adult learning (all learning?) that cannot easily be captured through our
> commonly known tests, and you've named some: attitudes, thinking/learning
> strategies, critical thinking skills, etc....
>
> So how do we 'teach' that stuff, and how do we assess/capture it? (I like
to
> say 'capture' when it comes to these broader notions of how people
> understand their learning and ability to learn and ability to use their
> learning) I would agree that these pieces are pretty hard to pin down
> sometimes.
>
> How about that folks? Do you agree/disagree? Anyone have some resources
to
> share here? You know, processes or tools that you have developed or use
> that help you get at this type of learning?
>
> marie
> NIFL Assessment List Moderator
>
>
> >From: "Eileen Eckert" <eileeneckert@hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
> >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:422] Re: Teacher Qualifications/valid or not?
> >Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:11:59 -0500 (EST)
> >
> >Hi Marie,
> >I just want to post a quick response to part of your message:
> >"I once heard an expert psychometrician say that in his view, if a test
is
> >properly developed, then teaching to it is no problem - it should cover
all
> >material and treat all students equally. What do you think about that?"
> >
> >I think the statement is true as far as it goes, but I also think it
misses
> >the main point of adult literacy and basic education. The point is <not>
to
> >ensure mastery of a universal or common body of material; if it were,
then
> >a test that covered that body of material--that was
content-oriented--would
> >be the answer to the big assessment/accountability question.
> >
> ><I think> (my opinion, maybe it's shared, maybe not) that the point of
> >adult basic and literacy education is to help adult students develop the
> >knowledge, learning strategies, and thinking skills--and to some extent
the
> >"dispositions" or attitudes-- that they want and need in order to set and
> >achieve worthwhile personal, family, employment, and community goals. I
> >don't think such learning is assessed, documented, or proven through
> >standardized tests, no matter how good they are.
> >
> >I'm experimenting with assessment rubrics and I think they have a lot of
> >potential, but more on that another time!
> >
> >
> >
> >From: "Marie Cora" <mariecora@hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
> >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:416] Re: Teacher Qualifications/valid or not?
> >Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:26:00 -0500 (EST)
> >
> >Hi Eileen and everyone,
> >
> >Great discussion. I'm interested in these two comments:
> >
> >It seems to me that:
> >1. If there is a problem with teachers, it's not in noncompliance but
> >rather in our usual acceptance of authority and compliance with rules and
> >policies we know in our hearts are not only wrong, but often destructive
to
> >students, and
> >2. The problem of validity/reliability cannot be reduced to blaming the
> >teacher for mis-administering the test and thereby ruining the
reliability
> >of scores whose validity was already compromised by not matching
> >instruction and learning.
> >
> >What I've experienced is that teachers/programs try then, to cover it
all -
> >they try hard to comply with accountability requirements by administering
> >mandated tests, and at the same time, in order to get useful information
> >for themselves and their students, they also do their own assessments.
> >Like a dual (duel?!) system - how can we get assessments that can span
both
> >purposes? Can we?
> >
> >
> >marie cora
> >NIFL Assessment List Moderator
> >
> >
> >>From: "Eileen Eckert" <eileeneckert@hotmail.com>
> >>Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
> >>To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >>Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:402] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment?
> >>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:18:07 -0500 (EST)
> >>
> >>Tanya,
> >>I agree with you that if a test is not valid another method of
assessment
> >>should be used--would that it were so! But what if that's not possible?
> >>
> >>For example, I worked in a state that had adopted CASAS for assessment,
> >>but not for curriculum. CASAS has--or had--curriculum to teach to the
> >>competencies addressed on the assessment, but this state didn't
> >>standardize curriculum, just assessment. So, where programs had
curriculum
> >>not in alignment with CASAS, the test was not assessing what students
had
> >>been taught and may have learned. Not valid, right?
> >>
> >>Are you saying that in circumstances in which teachers are mandated to
use
> >>assessments that are not valid, the problem lies with the teacher if
s/he
> >>does not adhere to testing procedures?
> >>
> >>It seems to me that:
> >>1. If there is a problem with teachers, it's not in noncompliance but
> >>rather in our usual acceptance of authority and compliance with rules
and
> >>policies we know in our hearts are not only wrong, but often destructive
> >>to students, and
> >>2. The problem of validity/reliability cannot be reduced to blaming the
> >>teacher for mis-administering the test and thereby ruining the
reliability
> >>of scores whose validity was already compromised by not matching
> >>instruction and learning.
> >>
> >>And all this doesn't even begin to address the question of transfer of
> >>knowledge and skill to "real-life" situations, which standardized
testing
> >>doesn't touch.
> >>
> >>Eileen
> >>
> >>
> >>From: ttweeton@comcast.net
> >>Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
> >>To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >>Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:397] Re: Teacher Qualifications in Assessment?
> >>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:50:18 -0500 (EST)
> >>
> >>Is it possible to say someone doesn't do their job well based simply on
> >>how
> >> >they give standardized tests?
> >>
> >>Eileen, let's say that they don't do certain aspects of their job very
> >>well.
> >>One can't pick and choose how one wants to administer official tests.
> >>Either one follows the recommended procedures or why not choose another
> >>test, or "make your own" ? That is just about what you are doing if
you
> >>don't follow the test procedures. And who exactly are you kidding when
> >>you don't?
> >>I cannot honestly see any rationale for NOT administering official
> >>tests the way they were intended to be used.If teachers are trained in
> >>assessment procedures they understand that. That they still refuse to do
> >>what is expected is a problem.........with them.
> >>Tanya Tweeton
> >>ESOL and GED
> >>Fort Lauderdale,Florida
> >>
> >>
> >> > Hi Eilleen,
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for your reply. Yes, this is an interesting quandry: really,
> >> > standardization is supposed to produce a level playing field. That's
> >>what
> >> > it's really all about. But when you are asked to use and report with
> >>tests
> >> > that don't seem to be exactly appropriate for particular purposes, or
> >>whose
> >> > results are not really all that useful in the classroom (more useful
at
> >>the
> >> > accountability level), then it becomes pretty hard to understand why
> >>timing,
> >> > and 'complete battery' issues are relevant.
> >> >
> >> > That's our lot right now - together we're changing and building our
> >>system.
> >> > It's a slow process.
> >> >
> >> > Knowledgeable versus fully trained - GREAT question - I would love to
> >>hear
> >> > your answers!!! What do you think?
> >> >
> >> > marie cora
> >> > NIFL Assessment List Moderator
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >From: "Eileen Eckert" <eileeneckert@hotmail.com>
> >> > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
> >> > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >> > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:386] Re: Teacher Qualifications in
> >>Assessment?
> >> > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:47:50 -0500 (EST)
> >> > >
> >> > >Hi Tanya and others,
> >> > >Actually, I think some of the people who do this are highly
> >>knowledgeable
> >> > >about assessment. For the record, I'm not one of those who
> >>mis-administers
> >> > >standardized tests (I don't have to give them at all right now,
lucky
> >>me).
> >> > >However, I think the rationale goes, if I have to give a
standardized
> >>test
> >> > >that by its nature is not going to yield meaningful results because
> >>it's
> >> > >not really valid for this particular use, then I don't really care
if
> >>it
> >> > >gives results that are also not reliable, so I'm going to do what I
> >>think
> >> > >is best for my students whether that means complying with or
breaking
> >>the
> >> > >rules.
> >> > >
> >> > >Is it possible to say someone doesn't do their job well based simply
> >>on how
> >> > >they give standardized tests?
> >> > >
> >> > >And is "knowledgeable" about assessment the same as "fully trained"?
> >> > >
> >> > >By the way, I'm new to this list but not NIFL lists in general, and
I
> >>often
> >> > >play the devil's advocate, but I am really trying to add to some
> >>important
> >> > >discussion. I hope you'll take my points in the spirit of dialogue
in
> >>which
> >> > >they are intended!
> >> > >
> >> > >Eileen
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >From: ttweeton@comcast.net
> >> > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
> >> > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >> > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:385] Re: Teacher Qualifications in
> >>Assessment?
> >> > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:13:35 -0500 (EST)
> >> > >
> >> > >(For example, some programs
> >> > >and/or teachers disregard time limits or give only a part of a
test.)
> >> > >
> >> > > There will always be those teachers who don't do their jobs well.
> >> > >Training in Assessment procedures is the key I would think. If
these
> >> > >teachers were fully trained they wouldn't pull this .
> >> > >Tanya Tweeton
> >> > >ESOL and GED
> >> > >Fort Lauderdale, Florida
> >> > > > How does teacher knowledge of assessment affect acceptance of
> >>testing
> >> > > > mandates and compliance with testing mandates? (For example,
some
> >> > >programs
> >> > > > and/or teachers disregard time limits or give only a part of a
> >>test.)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > From: "Marie Cora" <mariecora@hotmail.com>
> >> > > > Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
> >> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list
<nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >> > > > Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:380] Re: Teacher Qualifications in
> >>Assessment?
> >> > > > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:11:13 -0500 (EST)
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi Virginia,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I absolutely agree. That's not always easy with some of the
> >>commercial
> >> > > > tests we are mandated to use, don't you think?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > marie cora
> >> > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >From: "Virginia Tardaewether" <tarv@chemeketa.edu>
> >> > > > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
> >> > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list
> >><nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >> > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:376] Re: Teacher Qualifications in
> >> > >Assessment?
> >> > > > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:22:23 -0500 (EST)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >I think it is important that the instuctor has the skills to
link
> >> > > > >instruction to assessment so that assessment is integral to the
> >> > >program.
> >> > > > >This does not mean teaching to the test, whatever it might be.
> >> > > > >Instructors should use the assessment to inform and design
> >>instruction
> >> > > > >that integrates needs, skills, goals to the assessment results.
> >> > > > >Va
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> >> > > > >From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov]
> >>On
> >> > > > >Behalf Of ttweeton@comcast.net
> >> > > > >Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 07:50
> >> > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list
> >> > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:367] Re: Teacher Qualifications in
> >> > >Assessment?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >Do you feel that a solid background in assessment is an
essential
> >> > > > > > > qualification for an ABE practitioner? What are the
> >>assessment
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >Maria, we are required to use the TABE 7 and 8 to test progress
at
> >>the
> >> > > > >ABE levels.We use TABE 8 at entry and TABE 7 after six weeks if
we
> >>feel
> >> > > > >that progress has been made and the student can progress to the
> >>next
> >> > > > >level. Then we can collect the Literacy Completion point from
the
> >> > > > >student that pays for our programs if the students passes the
> >>level
> >> > > > >test..Therefore there is no lee way to use other tests. A
> >>knowledge of
> >> > > > >assessment procedures in general is of course important but it
is
> >>not
> >> > > > >critical for a teacher in our ABE programs in Broward county.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >Tanya Tweeton
> >> > > > >ESOL and GED
> >> > > > >Fort Lauderdale, Florida
> >> > > > > > Hi everyone,
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Wow, Kate, this is great stuff. Where did you complete your
> >>MA?
> >> > > > > > Those 4
> >> > > > > > points you describe are certainly fundamentals of assessment
> >> > > > >knowledge. It
> >> > > > > > would be great if all educational programs required
> >>practitioners to
> >> > > > >have a
> >> > > > > > good sense of these.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Kate notes that:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >Over time, I have observed that there is a difference
between
> >> > > > > > >instructors
> >> > > > > > >who
> >> > > > > > >have studied assessment and those who have not. We have
> >> > >experienced
> >> > > > >our
> >> > > > > > >best
> >> > > > > > >levels of interrater reliability when all testers on the
staff
> >>have
> >> > > > >equal
> >> > > > > > >academic background in assessment.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Do others have this same experience?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Does everyone understand concepts of interrater reliability
and
> >>why
> >> > > > > > this
> >> > > > > > might be important? How about the other concepts that Kate
> >> > >outlines:
> >> > > > >V &
> >> > > > > > R; adhering to tenets of standardization and exactly what
> >> > > > >standardizing
> >> > > > > > means; using data for program improvement?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Do people feel that they have enough information or have
places
> >> > >where
> >> > > > > > they
> >> > > > > > can access this information?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > What pieces of assessment do you feel you're missing and
would
> >>like
> >> > > > > > more of?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > This area that Kate has responded to is a high priority for
> >>myself -
> >> > > > > > my
> >> > > > > > grand wish is for all ABE practiitoners to have a good
> >>foundation in
> >> > > > >at
> >> > > > > > least the elements that Kate has outlined above.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > What do you think?
> >> > > > > > marie
> >> > > > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >From: "kate.diggins" <kate.diggins@slc.k12.ut.us>
> >> > > > > > >Reply-To: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
> >> > > > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list
> >><nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >> > > > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:360] Re: Teacher Qualifications in
> >> > > > > > >Assessment?
> >> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:39:21 -0500 (EST)
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >Hi, Maria.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >We use the BEST (and now, the BEST Plus) at our school. As
> >>part of
> >> > > > > > >my MA,
> >> > > > > > >I
> >> > > > > > >took a couple of classes in assessment(one in test design
and
> >> > > > >evaluation,
> >> > > > > > >and
> >> > > > > > >one in statistics). I wouldn't say that I am an expert by
any
> >> > >means,
> >> > > > >but
> >> > > > > > >these classes provided me with the following fundamantals:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >1. An understanding of "validity", "reliability" and some
> >>skills
> >> > >to
> >> > > > > > >ascertain the quality of a test before we use it.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >2. An appreciation of "standardization" as a concept, and
how
> >> > > > > > >standardized testing is a valuable tool both in student
> >>assessment
> >> > > > > > >and program evaluation.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >3. A basic knowledge of statistics and how to translate a
> >> > > > > > >spread-sheet of data into usable prose about a program.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >4. An understanding of which extraneous variables need to
be
> >> > > > > > >controlled in order for a test to be administered fairly,
and
> >>how
> >> > >to
> >> > > > > > >control these variables.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >Over time, I have observed that there is a difference
between
> >> > > > > > >instructors
> >> > > > > > >who
> >> > > > > > >have studied assessment and those who have not. We have
> >> > >experienced
> >> > > > >our
> >> > > > > > >best
> >> > > > > > >levels of interrater reliability when all testers on the
staff
> >>have
> >> > > > >equal
> >> > > > > > >academic background in assessment.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >---------- Original Message -----------
> >> > > > > > >From: "Marie Cora" <mariecora@hotmail.com>
> >> > > > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list
> >><nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >> > > > > > >Sent: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:18:29 -0500 (EST)
> >> > > > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:358] Teacher Qualifications in
> >> > >Assessment?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I was wondering what you all thought of Lisa Soricone's
> >>second
> >> > > > > > > > question regarding teacher qualification - but in the
area
> >>of
> >> > > > > > >assessment.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > 2) teacher qualification
> >> > > > > > > > We are trying to move beyond simply saying that programs
> >>need to
> >> > > > > > > > hired "qualified staff." What exactly does it mean to be
a
> >> > > > > > > > qualified teacher/administrator/counselor in ABE? More
> >> > > > > > > > specifically, what do you consider the most essential
> >> > > > > > > > qualifications for ABE instructors in general? GED
> >>instructors?
> >> > > > > > > > ESOL instructors? ABE administrators? ABE counselors?
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > As an assessment specialist, I have found that mandates
and
> >> > > > > > > > changes are demanded much too quickly for the majority of
> >> > > > > > > > practitioners to stay with or ahead of the learning
curve.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Do you feel that a solid background in assessment is an
> >> > >essential
> >> > > > > > > > qualification for an ABE practitioner? What are the
> >>assessment
> >> > > > > > > > basics that you want teachers (and programs managers) to
> >>know in
> >> > > > > > > > order to feel prepared in their work?
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Or this question: If a teacher does not have a good
sense
> >>of
> >> > > > > > > > assessment basics, but administers the TABE or BEST test
to
> >> > > > > > > > students, is this an issue?
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > What do you think?
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > marie cora
> >> > > > > > > > NIFL Assessment List Moderator
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
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> >> > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is
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> >>and
> >> > safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp
> >> >
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
> >>ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
> >>
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
> >ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
> >ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
> ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Dec 23 2004 - 09:46:12 EST