Return-Path: <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id iAODvZQ05682; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:57:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:57:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <A771F3D6-3E20-11D9-955F-00039381D39E@comcast.net> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: David Rosen <djrosen@comcast.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:769] Adult new reader assessments, "plateaus" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Status: O Content-Length: 4941 Lines: 110 Bruce and others, Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Bruce. I generally agree with what you have said, but want to pursue a couple of things: You wrote: > We don't have a good assessement tool to measure progress for adult > new readers at any level, especially the beginning levels. Are you saying there are no good reading assessment tools for adult new readers, or no good _standardized_ reading assessments for adult new readers? Would others agree? Has anyone had experience, for example, using the new EFF reading assessment? > I have not known any adult who came from a literate culture, who > did really not know how to read, who ever became a > deft and fluent reader. I have known many adults who > have learned a lot, but none how ever went from not > being able to read simple words and environmental > print to being able to read a book from Oprah's club. > That's only my experience. I wonder if your experience is typical of those who teach or tutor adult new readers. I would like to hear from others on this list. From your experience, do adult new readers generally "plateau" in reading at high beginner or intermediate level? If so, why? Specific reading disabilities? Not enough intensity (hours per week) of reading instruction, or not enough duration (number of weeks/years in program) or other things? Have those who have seen this as a pattern experienced exceptions or breakthroughs, and if so, what was done differently for those adult new readers? Thanks. David J. Rosen djrosen@comcast.net > On Wednesday, November 24, 2004, at 07:20 AM, Bruce Carmel wrote: > A question asked if adults beginning readers can > plateau at the 2nd or 3rd grade level. What a complex > question this is! Here are some of the thoughts this > brings up for me: > Assessment of really beginning readers has always > been a problem. Assigning "grade level " to adults > has always been a problem for me. Adults are not > children. Can a grown man or woman really read like > an eight-year-old, even if they get the same grade > level equivalent on tests? I do not believe so. > The standardized test we have been saddled with > in New York State is the TABE. This test was > certainly "validated" by the company that sells it, > but I do not consider it a valid instrument in the > true sense of the word. > My understanding of "validity" is that it means > "it measures what it claims to measure." The TABE > measures an adult's ability to choose the right > answers on a multiple choice test. It does not > measure an adult's ability to read. I have seen many > people read the questions and answers on the TABE, > understand all they read, and choice the wrong answer. > This can be due to a last of test-taking savvy, > cultural biases on the test (that asks people to read > a baseball scoreboard), or an inability to think > logically. > Assessing the growth of beginning readers remains > a challenge. I have known many people whose lives > have changed dramatically. They can now read street > signs, subway maps, their bills, notes from their > employers, etc., but they crash and burn on a > standardized test. > We don't have a good assessement tool to measure > progress for adult new readers at any level, > especially the beginning levels. With no alternative > to standardized tests, what can we do? > I have to give credit to the NALS, where people's > ability to read was assessed by looking at their > ability to read--sort of. The NALS sets the bar so > high. People are at Level One if they can identify > information in an text, for example, but not think > critically about it, cannot synthesize. But they read > it. I don't think such people can be called > illiterate. Anyway, the NALS looked at people's > reading levels. It is not a pre- and post-test. > Maybe the question really meant: "Do adults who > do not know how to read plateau at the beginning > levels?" If so, please forgive my digression. My > answer to that question, based on fifteen years of > experience, would be "Yes they often do." I have not > known any adult who came from a literate culture, who > did really not know how to read, who ever became a > deft and fluent reader. I have known many adults who > have learned a lot, but none how ever went from not > being able to read simple words and environmental > print to being able to read a book from Oprah's club. > That's only my experience. Maybe it's possible for an > adult nonreader to move into NALS Level Four and > higher. I have never seen it. > We know SO LITTLE about adult literacy. How much > can people learn? What is the best way for them to > learn? Why did they not learn in the first place? I > wrote a whole dissertation about those questions. The > answer I came up with is that we don't know very much > at all.... > Bruce Carmel > Turning Point > Deputy ED >
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