Return-Path: <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id j5OFOBG09453; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <BEE19D77.27E8%alantoops@cs.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: Alan Toops <alantoops@cs.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1143] RE: FW: RE: Literacy needs X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 9800 Lines: 285 Marie and everyone, I would like to point out that CASAS uses a National Consortium composed of State Directors of Adult Education, practioners in the field of adult ed, ESOL, MH, and Corrections to guide the development of its assessment instruments. Their approach is a good model of field informed test design. Targeted at needs identified by the consortium members. Alan Toops On 6/24/05 11:12 AM, "Marie Cora" <marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com> wrote: > Hi Varshna, thanks for this. > > Yes, I will show my colors (not the first time, eh?) that I also think > using GLEs (Grade Level Equivalents) is not a great thing for our field > and the population we serve. > > Another post (apologies that I don't recall who all of you posted it - I > usually like to call you by name) also noted that it's time to put > pressure on our system to come together as a voice to influence some of > the accountability issues that lead to funding and classroom to be at > odds with one another. > > So some comments: > > -some states are in fact moving away from GLEs and using Scale Scores > instead (see http://www.sabes.org/assessment/scalescores.htm for how > Mass. is using these) > -I'll raise my "vision" here in response to making change on a national > scale: that practitioners need to (learn how to) get involved with test > development, construction, implementation, and interpretation. Until we > all do, we don't have enough knowledge base, or practitioner research > data, to make a case for change. An alternative must be suggested in > order for someone to sit up and listen. That said, I know that small > pieces of this change are indeed happening in some states already. > > And questions: > > If your state or your program is using Scale Scores, or is using some > other way of reporting testing scores, can you let us know what and how > you are doing it? > > If you don't get federal funding, what does your accountability system > look like? > > If you are an EFF (Equipped for the Future) state, for example, what > does your accountability system look like? > > Thanks! > > marie cora > Moderator, NIFL Assessment Discussion List, and > Coordinator/Developer LINCS Assessment Special Collection at > http://literacy.kent.edu/Midwest/assessment/ > > > marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov] On > Behalf Of Jackson, Varshna > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:56 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1130] RE: FW: RE: Literacy needs > > Given a supply-side performance system, I'm not at all surprised at the > candid discussion of how to game the numbers--it happens in workforce. > Frankly, I've never understood why we are using grade-level equivalency > as a > proxy for what adults needs to know to be able to function at work, home > and > the community, and how well they are able to do those tasks as a result > of > receiving instruction--as if learning stops at the 12th grade. I can > only > imagine the sheer horror of being classified as being at the 9th-grade > level > in reading, having failed or done poorly in K-12, when I'm 35. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov] On > Behalf > Of Marie Cora > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 5:33 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1129] FW: RE: Literacy needs > > > Hello everyone, > > The following post is from Nancy Hansen. > marie > > > Nancy Hansen > Executive Director > Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council > sfallsliteracy@yahoo.com > 605) 332-BOOK > ..................................................................... > ............................................... > Dear Michael and Tina et all, > > I have a real problem with the value system that drives the process > that you > both implement. > > I am a literacy provider who doesn't test the community-based > literacy-level registrants who come to us for help. Instead I evaluate > their reading, writing and life skills. I do not have GED students > either. > So perhaps that's where my philosophy goes off-to-the-left of many > instructors/administrators like you. > > Michael commented << If you need to demonstrate gains among a percentage > of > students being pre-and posttested, it's good to test them on intake, as > you > will likely get lower scores than you would once they're comfortable.>> > To > which Tina replied <<I agree with you that the reason our program will > probably decide to continue giving the TABE at intake is .. because we > are > likely to get lower TABE scores from them when they are first entering > ..>> > Have either of you considered the inhumanity behind your decision? Have > either of you thought about the learners' self-image and what it does to > their confidence failing immediately at intake? And all for the sake of > a > number that can be placed in a report. Where a post-test won't even > show a > significant level change (much less 2 grade levels in literacy level > students.) I get the literacy-level adults who are, for the sake of > numbers, tested like your learners are. They come to our program from > GED-prep programs like yours where, after the student has been subjected > to > the above process, leap/jump/flee ship !!! They've come with their > heads > hung low, thinking they cannot succeed in *this* program either. I have > even had men and women (mostly men) say to me *directly*, "I must be > dumber > than I thought I was because I couldn't even pass their TABE test." > And they don't come immediately! It can be months (up to a year) later > before they "dare" try again somewhere else. It takes a very long time > for > the Testing Wounds to heal after standardized, timed tests knock the > pins > right out from under them. I realize that funding drives *you* because > testing is required by the fed's. And there may be a sensible reason to > test GED students. But do all of the adult education entrants come > wanting > to achieve a GED and enroll in classes to do so? Don't you have men and > women who want to increase their personal capabilities and improve their > life skills? > Their needs are not being met by giving them a low score that they have > to > raise in the post-testing timeframe. > They know they've received a poor score. And my belief is they hurt > because > they are ashamed of that number their pracititioner has just given > them. > It's way more than "discouragement" as Michael puts it. > It's a loss of self-esteem. > I feel so strongly that there needs to be a broad base of advocates who > value people more than numbers among those who have the power to change > the > assessment systems in our adult education field. Is that a fantasy? > Must > be. There are more like you than like me who come here to chat. Nancy > Hansen Sioux Falls, SD > > Tina_Luffman@yc.edu wrote: > Hi Michael, > > I agree with you that the reason our program will probably decide to > continue giving the TABE at intake is not only to locate the students > into > curriculum as soon as possible, but also because we are likely to > get lower > TABE scores from them when they are first entering the process rather > than > later when they are back into school mode. > > Tina > > > > > Tina Luffman > Instructional Specialist, ABE-GED > Verde Valley Campus > 634-6544 > tina_luffman@yc.edu > > -----nifl-assessment@nifl.gov wrote: ----- > To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov> > From: "Michael & Sunay Gyori" <michaelsunay@hawaii.rr.com> > Sent by: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov > Date: 06/22/2005 02:41PM > Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1113] RE: Literacy needs > > Hi Tina, > > If you need to demonstrate gains among a percentage of students being > pre- > and posttested, it's good to test them on intake, as you will likely get > lower scores than you would once they're comfortable. Under the Adult > Education & Family Literacy Act (AEFLA), students can receive up to 10 > hours > of instruction before they are tested. > > Michael > > Michael A. Gyori, Educational Linguist > Language Development & Technology Director > Language and Literacy Resource Center > Hui Malama Learning Center, Inc. > 375 Mahalani Street > Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii, 96793, U.S.A. > > Tel: (808) 249-0111 > Fax: (808) 249-0119 > E-mail: michael.gyori@huimalama.org > Website: www.huimalama.org http://www.huimalama.org/> > > ________________________________ > > From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov] On > Behalf > Of Tina_Luffman@yc.edu > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:07 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1112] RE: Literacy needs > > > Hi Michael, > > I agree with you that giving the TABE test on the first day of > orientation > is a discouragement for students. Because our funding requires that we > test > initially and then after a period of study, and then show educational > gains, > we feel it is necessary to maximize our potential for showing student > progress and maintaining our grant program by giving the exam first. I > can > see good rationale behind waiting a few weeks and having students begin > with > group lessons to create a community atmosphere, especially for those > with a > negative educational background. I will consider your ideas and find out > if > my program is willing to try this out. > > > Tina > > > > > > Tina Luffman > Instructional Specialist, ABE-GED > Verde Valley Campus > 634-6544 > tina_luffman@yc.edu! mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu> < > > > > > > > Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. >
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