Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f0O5dd903762; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:39:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:39:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <004201c085df$f4e7b140$d8a4fccd@oemcomputer> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Kathleen Munive" <kmunive@knight-hub.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:5486] Re: "illiterate" immigrants X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 4480 Lines: 92 Dear Miriam, Thanks for your comments, I think I mentioned that I am not a schooled linguist. I do need to focus on how I hear the phonetic sounds of English as opposed to second language learners. But I would like to clear up a few things. I did not mention the word illiterate in my message. I agree that no one is truly illiterate. It is ludicris to suggest that because someone cannot read or write they have a low intelligence level and are incapable of communicating. I merely hit the reply button, which as you can see from your own message, automatically fills in the subject of the original message. But I would like you to think about something else I wrote: "Adults will become insulted and frustrated if you try to give them materials made for children. Their intelligence must be acknowledged while servicing the deficet." - I understand your point about the word "baby", but aren't you also making the assumption that these adults are incapable of understanding the word infant? I would bet that if a doctor, nurse or refugee worker was at all involved with the birth (or pregnancy) of any child remotely close to these adults, the word infant was used. These adults know the difference between slang and proper usage of the language they speak, even though they cannot write or read in their own language. Perhaps baby was a poor example. I am sure you would agree that you would not want to use the word "gonna" for "going to". Likewise, if we are not cognizant of what words we are using, it is quite likely that we will use idioms or expressions that adult students from other countries will not understand. I agree whole heartedly that you should not dictate and monitor every word you would use in a lesson. But, each lesson should have planned objectives directly related to the what is being used and taught. I was trying to give specific metaphors, perhaps I made it too specific. Kathleen Munive ESL teacher Fairfax County Public Schools McLean, Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miriam Burt" <miriam@cal.org> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:45 AM Subject: [NIFL-ESL:5470] Re: "illiterate" immigrants > Kathleen Munive writes: [NIFL-ESL:5467] Re: "illiterate immigrants" > > "Plan the lesson with as simplistic information as possible using words > that follow basic phonetic and grammar rules. To give you a specific > example,let me use English as the language I would be teaching. If it > were a child care lesson I would use the word "infant" or "child" as > opposed to the word "baby". Why? Because phonetically, infant or child > have no irregularities. The word baby, with its use of the letter "y" > may ultimately teach the students that the sound for "y" is read and > said as an "e". This would make for more confusion when they try to read > the word "fly". " > > I have to disagree with this statement on two counts. First, there is > really no irregularity here. In one syllable words in English that end > in "y", the "y" is pronounced /ai/ (like the word "eye") In > multi-syllable words the "y" is pronounced /i/ (like the sound > "eeeeee"). > > Secondly, however, and more importantly, choosing words that sound more > "educated" than the more common ones are not always necessarily doing > students a service. The common word is "baby." This is the word we say > and write. This is the word students need to know and use. And, as one > of my colleagues at NCLE said, "Have you ever known a student who > couldn't learn to say and read the word "baby"? We should be careful, I > think not to do students a disservice by overly controlling the language > they they will be exposed to and use in class. > > One final thought, the word "illiterate" is unfortunate. It promotes a > deficit model for looking at adults who are learning English. Beginning > level learners is my preference. > > Miriam > ************* > Miriam Burt > Associate Director, National Center for ESL Literacy Education (NCLE) > Center for Applied Linguistics > 4646 40th Street NW > Washington, DC 20015 > (202) 362-0700 (phone) > (202) 363-7204 (fax) > miriam@cal.org > ***************************************** > Visit NCLE's Web site at www.cal.org/ncle > ***************************************** > We're the only national center devoted exclusively to providing > technical assistance to those working with adults learning English as a > second language. >
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