[NIFL-ESL:5511] Re: "illiterate" immigrants

From: Kenneh (kenneth@premier-programming.com)
Date: Wed Jan 31 2001 - 12:20:05 EST


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From: "Kenneh" <kenneth@premier-programming.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:5511] Re: "illiterate" immigrants
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-----Original Message-----
From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Kathleen
Munive
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:5486] Re: "illiterate" immigrants



Dear Miriam,
Thanks for your comments, I think I mentioned that I am not a schooled
linguist.  I do need to focus on how I hear the phonetic sounds of English
as opposed to second language learners.  But I would like to clear up a few
things.  I did not mention the word illiterate in my message.  I agree that
no one is truly illiterate.  It is ludicris to suggest that because someone
cannot read or write they have a low intelligence level and are incapable of
communicating.  I merely hit the reply button, which as you can see from
your own message, automatically fills in the subject of the original
message.

But I would like you to think about something else I wrote:  "Adults will
become insulted and frustrated if you try to give them materials made for
children.  Their intelligence must be acknowledged while servicing the
deficet." -  I understand your point about the word "baby", but aren't you
also making the assumption that these adults are incapable of understanding
the word infant?  I would bet that if a doctor, nurse or refugee worker was
at all involved with the birth (or pregnancy) of any child remotely close to
these adults, the word infant was used.  These adults know the difference
between slang and proper usage of the language they speak, even though they
cannot write or read in their own language.  Perhaps baby was a poor
example.  I am sure you would agree that you would not want to use the word
"gonna" for "going to".  Likewise, if we are not cognizant of what words we
are using, it is quite likely that we will use idioms or expressions that
adult students from other countries will not understand.

I agree whole heartedly that you should not dictate and monitor every word
you would use in a lesson.  But, each lesson should have planned objectives
directly related to the what is being used and taught.  I was trying to give
specific metaphors, perhaps I made it too specific.

Kathleen Munive
ESL teacher
Fairfax County Public Schools
McLean,  Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam Burt" <miriam@cal.org>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:45 AM
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:5470] Re: "illiterate" immigrants


> Kathleen Munive writes: [NIFL-ESL:5467] Re: "illiterate immigrants"
>
> "Plan the lesson with as simplistic information as possible using words
> that follow basic phonetic and grammar rules.  To give you a specific
> example,let me use English as the language I would be teaching.  If it
> were a child care lesson I would use the word "infant" or "child" as
> opposed to the word "baby".  Why?  Because phonetically, infant or child
> have no irregularities. The word baby, with its use of the letter "y"
> may ultimately teach the students that the sound for "y" is read and
> said as an "e". This would make for more confusion when they try to read
> the word "fly". "
>
> I have to disagree with this statement on two counts. First, there is
> really no irregularity here. In one syllable words in English that end
> in "y", the "y" is pronounced /ai/ (like the word "eye") In
> multi-syllable words the "y" is pronounced /i/ (like the sound
> "eeeeee").
>
> Secondly, however, and more importantly, choosing words that sound more
> "educated" than the more common ones are not always necessarily doing
> students a service. The common word is "baby." This is the word we say
> and write. This is the word students need to know and use. And, as one
> of my colleagues at NCLE said, "Have you ever known a student who
> couldn't learn to say and read the word "baby"? We should be careful, I
> think not to do students a disservice by overly controlling the language
> they they will be exposed to and use in class.
>
> One final thought, the word "illiterate" is unfortunate. It promotes a
> deficit model for looking at adults who are learning English. Beginning
> level learners is my preference.
>
> Miriam
> *************
> Miriam Burt
> Associate Director, National Center for ESL Literacy Education (NCLE)
> Center for Applied Linguistics
> 4646 40th Street NW
> Washington, DC 20015
> (202) 362-0700 (phone)
> (202) 363-7204 (fax)
> miriam@cal.org
> *****************************************
> Visit NCLE's Web site at www.cal.org/ncle
> *****************************************
> We're the only national center devoted exclusively to providing
> technical assistance to those working with adults learning English as a
> second language.
>



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