Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g08FVh010287; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:31:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:31:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <F254GwEUJlWZO8x96Pn000129bd@hotmail.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Mary Hogan" <maryhogan@hotmail.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:6839] RE: Tom Sticht's Democracy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Status: O Content-Length: 5148 Lines: 107 Although my work is with immigrants, I almost wish I worked with African-Americans so that I could learn from you. It is always a pleasure to read your intelligent, well-reasoned postings. >From: KathleenBombach@aol.com >Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:6837] RE: Tom Sticht's Democracy >Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:26:17 -0500 (EST) > >Dear Miriam: >I was not saying anything negative about the ESL list--I enjoy this list >very >much because so many people come from so many directions, levels of >experience, opinions, histories, etc. > >*I was responding to Sticht's article, not the ESL list.* > >Mary Ann Flores clearly lets a thousand voices speak, and I appreciate her >for that. She has a deft hand and is always professional. ESL has many >postings and a lower moderator-message ratio, and I felt the lists with >fewer >postings overall and more moderator postings were portrayed *in Tom >Sticht's >article* as somehow less democratic. Although the term 'democratic' was >never >defined, we all know that being 'more democratic' is somehow a good thing. > >I think *all* the moderators on *all* the literacy lists do an excellent >job >and deserve our never-ending support and appreciation. I am on another >(non-literacy) list where the moderator is heavy-handed and the list sends >constant, annoying form messages, such as notifying you when the moderator >decides to post your message--as if you could not see your own message >right >there on the screen. Very irritating, and much more work for the mderator. > >I did attempt to send my message to NLA (I do not know if it went through) >because that is where the two year old discussion took place and where Tom >posted his original report. But how could I not send it to ESL, which is >where I read Tom's posting copied over from NLA? Remember, I am positing >that >smaller lists with fewer postings and more moderator activity are also >valuable and may be just as or more 'democratic' as are larger lists like >ESL, but that is not a criticism of the ESL list. It is an intellectual >criticism of the assumptions undergirding Tom's research. > >I am saying that volume of messages or level of moderator activity are not >good measures of 'democratic' values, nor is the ratio of messages from >different people a good measure if everyone's messages say the same thing. >There is an assumption in Tom's piece that a lower ratio of messages from >each individual participant is inherently a good thing. I do not think that >is necessarily so. Nor do I think that a list with a higher ratio of >moderator comments is a 'bad' thing. In my opinion, the range and >variability of content as well as ideological diversity matter more in >measuring how 'democratic' a list is. > >But that is just me. I like spirited discussions and I am bored by >repetition. I prefer one message saying something over ten messages from >ten >people saying the same thing. I like intensity (like the recent >Massechussett's adverted catastrophe, where I had my heart in my throat as >I >drew parallels with local events and possible statewide events as the >situation played out), opportunity to become aware of new knowledge and >experiences (like all the discussion and examples of family literacy >curriculum on the Family list), disagreement, conflict, and debate, and all >the detailed expositions that people care to make. > >I have tried to start discussions of African-American literacy on most of >the >lists, with very little response. It is hard to talk to yourself in a >public >forum. CAL seems to be the literacy 'think tank' that pays most attention >to >blacks and black language research and issues. CAL.org is where I heard my >first Gullah, for example, and I recommend that everyone visit their >website >and explore what is available. I do. > >I think anyone who lives in Washington DC knows there is more than one >Washington. I do not think I need to say more. I come from the deep south, >attended de facto segregated schools in the middle of the demise of de jure >segregation. I lived in the south that still had 'colored' and 'white' >-only >bathrooms, restaurant rooms, and drinking fountains. I grew up in the south >when people asked why my sister and I were darker than other family members >because that was something important to know in the great racial divide. So >the mysterious lack of robust discussion on African-American literacy is >something where depth and breadth of discussion matter. This is an example >of >how counts and frequencies do not tell us anything about what list is more >'democratic', *not* a criticism of the ESL list. > > >From the offline postings I have received every time I allude to the >Boston >to DC corridor over the past few years, I seem to be hitting a few nails on >the head. Sometimes we love and appreciate each other more when we are 500 >miles apart with no bus service. > >Kathleen Bombach _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
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