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From: "Aljets" <laljets.ndaerc@midconetwork.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8243] Re: Preaching in ESL classes I need HELP
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I have been following this discussion with interest. There seems to
have been a misunderstanding along the way. The person teaching from
the Bible is the Teacher not the volunteer. Kara Meral is the
volunteer. She is also an experienced teacher who recognizes poor
teaching. This needs to be brought to the attention of the
administration as both illegal and ineffective instruction. But she
needs to be careful of her own position. If she is labeled as a
troublemaker, she may never get a paid position in this institution.
Lee Aljets, Coordinator
ND Adult Educ. & Literacy Resource Center
Bismarck ND
701-224-1969
701-224-1989
Laljets.ndaerc.midconetwork.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Dottie
Shattuck
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 10:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8241] Re: Preaching in ESL classes I need HELP
Meral -- the volunteer teaching from the Bible is only 1 part of the
problem. The bigger problem seems to be the lack of a specific
curriculum for the program in which you teach -- and training for the
volunteers. New teachers, both paid & volunteer, need to know what they
are expected to teach & be given the tools to do so.
I began my adult ESL experience as a volunteer in a church-based
program; later, I became the program's director. Although most of the
students & volunteers were Christian, we taught "Survival English"
skills & vocabulary. Even at Easter & Christmas, we did not teach the
religious aspects of the holidays. We taught (& I still do at the
community college) the vocabulary for things connected to the holidays
that one might see in the community -- (for example, in Dec.) star, Wise
Men, stable, reindeer, sleigh, etc. We also learn vocab. other Dec.
holidays. We also discuss family/cultural traditions for the various
holidays -- "do you celebrate ______? How?" But this is only done in a
mode of exchanging cultural information.
When the local paper did articles & photos about immigrant churches, I
used the materials in class ("Places in our community") if I knew that
some of the students were involved. This gave other students
information & an opportunity to "connect" w/a church if they wished.
However, none of this takes the place of an "Everyday English"
curriculum!
By the way -- An interesting mini-discussion of religion arose in my
beginners' class last year during break time when 2 young women, 1 from
Sudan & 1 from Somalia, began talking about why they had fled their
countries. The very astute Somali then observed that in her country
Moslems were killing Moslems; in Sudan, Moslems were killing Christians;
and in Israel, Jews & Moslems were killing each other. Then she asked
me the same question that Time magazine addressed recently: "Why they do
this, Teacher? All 3 have same Ibrahim [Abraham], same God." [This
woman was not literate, but certainly not "uneducated."] The 2 women &
I then talked a bit about how most wars are fought over land (territory
= power) and/or religion. The Somali woman's final summary: "this
fighting stupid."
Dottie Shattuck
CPCC
Charlotte, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meral Kara" <karamera@boun.edu.tr>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:25 PM
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8238] Re: Preaching in ESL classes I need HELP
| Today I called the human resources department of the school and asked
| about the school policy on the matter. Apparently this is against the
| law. However, I agree with Mrs. Durham in that they sure want to know
| about you and if need be it is OK to help your students with the Bible
| if you are knowledgeable. I take this stand as if going to the church
| is part of their lives in the States, they might use some help. Yet
| again there is a huge difference between disclosing your way of living
| when they are curious and imposing it directly. Forgive me if I am
| going too far, but what I felt in her classroom was she was trying to
| "civilize" some primitive Asians and I think her duty there is to
| teach English not the Christianity. As she prefered Bible as the
| textbook, which is a nice reading to those who CAN understand its
| language but a very heavy reading for the beginners, I think she can
| achieve neither. What if I went into that classroom with a copy of
| "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" and claimed that I was teaching them
| English of the US today? I used it while I was teaching Old English
| literature while I was teaching to Enlish majors at university, yet in
| the case of beginners don't you think this would be unfair to the
| student who will go back home having understood nothing at the end of
| the class and still feeling "alien" because he cannot shop, find his
| own way around, go to the doctors and tell his problem? All the best
|
| MRS. KARA
|
|
| o,,,o
|
| On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Pamela Brown wrote:
|
| > I've been following this discussion thread with interest because it
| > is so interesting. I just want to throw in my two cents on the
| > topic.
| >
| > I have two problems with using the Bible to teach English. One is,
| > of course, the fact that not every student in an ESL class is a
| > Christian. I don't think such a decidedly Christian manuscript has a
| > place in a classroom where the goal is to teach English, not
| > Christianity.
| >
| > Secondly, what about the language? I don't know what version of the
| > Bible was used, but the family Bible I remember --- and still have
| > --- from my childhood was written in archaic, ponderous English. No
| > one today speaks like that. Unless the teacher/tutor was using a
| > version of the Bible that had been "translated" into 20th/21st
| > century English, I don't see of what use it would be in teaching
| > English language learners.
| >
| > There is also a huge difference between using the Bible as the
| > classroom textbook and Ms. Durham telling about her life married to
| > a minister and the role church plays in her life. Many ESL teachers
| > with whom I've spoken have told me that their students are very
| > interested in learning about their lives, and by extension, life in
| > the United States or helping a student with pronunciation of a Bible
| > reading for church. Both help students practice and ultimately
| > master the spoken language.
| >
| > Pamela G. Brown
| >
| > --On Wednesday, October 16, 2002 2:28 PM -0400 odurham@integrity.com
| > wrote:
| >
| > > I think Mr. Kara has brought up a legitimate problem that he
| > > observed.
| > >
| > > Obviously there is a legitimate pedigodical gap and and as a
| > > Christian I would also comment that there is a religious
| > > contradiction, as well. The Apostle Paul, said, in addressing the
| > > issue of speaking in many languages, that he would rather speak 3
| > > intelligent words in a language that is understood than speak
| > > volumes of language that is not understood. (This might be a good
| > > reference for those directors of volunteer programs.) However,
| > > that is neither here nor there for the purposes of this website.
| > >
| > > I would personally take some small exception, however, to the "no
| > > politics, no religion, etc." policy. Of course, in the broad
| > > sense no one follows this; there are so few topics which don't
fall into these
| > > areas in some broad sense. But more specifically, I think that
| > > "separation of church and state" has created one true taboo in
| > > the American classroom, and that is religion. Many cultures
| > > discuss these ideas freely and with enjoyable vehemence, and find
| > > American "polite" conversation very drab. I think we should
| > > discuss all subjects with respect for all involved in the
| > > conversation, and appropriate to the language level of the
| > > learner. Of course, this would also respect the right of the one
| > > who chooses not to participate.
| > >
| > > I often tell my students a lot about my life, my family, etc.
| > > They are curious about "typical Americans." I make no secret of
| > > the fact that I am married to a minister and church is a big part
| > > of my activities. In my college ESL writing classes, a very
| > > advanced English level, I find that with some students this frees
| > > them to write about spiritually related subjects because they
| > > aren't afraid to admit that they think there is a God.
| > >
| > > I just say this because I know from personal experience that a
| > > person of faith can also be intimidated by a teacher who is
| > > perceived as hostile to these things. Notice I say perceived.
| > >
| > > Olivia Durham
| > > odurham@integrity.com
| > > Adjunct faculty, Boise State University
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > Academic Freedom is defined in my faculty handbook as the "right
| > > of teachers to conduct classroom discussions that may introduce
| > > relevant controversy."
| > >
| > > Quoting Corinne Moran <cmoranmv@gis.net>:
| > >
| > >>
| > >>
| > >> ----------
| > >> > From: "Corinne Moran" <cmoranmv@gis.net>
| > >> > To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
| > >> > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8227] Re: Preaching in ESL classes I need
| > >> > HELP
| > >> > Date: Tue, Oct 15, 2002, 10:19 PM
| > >> >
| > >>
| > >> > Re using religious material in teaching ESL---I am the ESL
| > >> > coordinator
| > >> for a
| > >> > local organization that uses volunteers to teach one-on one or
| > >> > in a
| > >> small
| > >> > group. Volunteers must take a 20 hour workshop to prepare.
| > >> > After a short while, I usually sit in on a session. I was very
| > >> surprised to
| > >> > observe one tutor, who belongs to a fundamentalist church here,
| > >> > using
| > >> the
| > >> > bible for material. After the session, I met with her and told
| > >> > her
| > >> this was
| > >> > not acceptable for the usual reasons. She chose not to continue
| > >> tutoring.
| > >> > On the other hand, I had a young Brazilian man come to me to
| > >> > ask me
| > >> help in
| > >> > preparing him to read something aloud in English in his church.
| > >> > Of
| > >> course I
| > >> > helped.
| > >> > If students bring something from church in English with
| > >> > questions
| > >> about the
| > >> > meaning of the words,I would define the words, but would be
| > >> > careful to
| > >> keep
| > >> > it on an academic level not a religious one. I feel using the
| > >> > bible
| > >> or any
| > >> > other religious material in a secular program should not be
| > >> acceptable.
| > >> >
| > >> > ----------
| > >> >> From: Meral Kara <karamera@boun.edu.tr>
| > >> >> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
| > >> >> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8219] Preaching in ESL classes I need HELP
| > >> >> Date: Tue, Oct 15, 2002, 4:15 PM
| > >> >>
| > >> >
| > >> >>
| > >> >> Sorry for the length of the message...
| > >> >> Hi,
| > >> >>
| > >> >> I have a problem in the institution that i currently do some
| > >> voluntary
| > >> >> teaching. And i feel you are the correct body to give me the
| > >> >> advice
| > >> i
| > >> >> need.
| > >> >> Firstly, this institution is a university and they offer free
| > >> >> English
| > >> /
| > >> >> speaking classes to the spouses of international students and
| > >> scholars and
| > >> >> they work with volunteers and i am the newest guy in the
| > >> >> block.
| > >> Because i
| > >> >> showed up after they formed the classes and assigned the
| > >> >> volunteers i
| > >> am
| > >> >> supposed to be helping the lady who teaches the beginners
| > >> >> speaking
| > >> class
| > >> >> which is an open enrollment class.
| > >> >> Apparently this lady comes from a church and has really good
| > >> intentions
| > >> >> and wants to be of help, but the problem is we had checked the
| > >> university
| > >> >> bookstore for the kinds of books that we could make use of and
| > >> >> the
| > >> library
| > >> >> and as an English teacher who has been teaching Beginners i
| > >> >> had a
| > >> few
| > >> >> suggestions.
| > >> >> The first day of the classes i saw that she actually preferred
| > >> preaching
| > >> >> from the Bible and expected them to converse about religious
| > >> >> matters.
| > >> I
| > >> >> feel, actually strongly believe, that the Bible is a really
| > >> >> heavy
| > >> reading
| > >> >> for beginner students and thus is discouraging as they only
| > >> >> looked at
| > >> each
| > >> >> other during the class and possibly did not understand even a
| > >> >> word
| > >> she was
| > >> >> saying. I preferred to speak rather slowly and after the class
| > >> >> i
| > >> worked on
| > >> >> some minimal pairs with three of the students. Then they went
| > >> >> to her
| > >> and
| > >> >> said i was a very good teacher and they could understand me
| > >> >> better.
| > >> So the
| > >> >> lady got offended.
| > >> >> Now, should i go tell her directly that this is not the way to
| > >> teach
| > >> >> beginners speaking or is it better to talk to the person in
| > >> >> charge?
| > >> Other
| > >> >> than the difficulty of the Bible as an English reading, I have
| > >> >> the
| > >> motto
| > >> >> "no religion, no politics, no soccer" in my class (British
| > >> >> people
| > >> can
| > >> >> easily understand the third one, I don't know yet if it is
| > >> >> valid in
| > >> the
| > >> >> States). Given the sensitivity of American people after
| > >> >> September 11,
| > >> do
| > >> >> you think they would misunderstand me as i am also Muslim? I
| > >> >> got really stuck and need HELP.
| > >> >>
| > >> >> Thanks in advance
| > >> >> Meral
| > >> >>
| > >>
| >
| >
| >
| > --
| > Brown, Pamela Greenhalgh
| > Workforce Improvement Network
| > James Madison University
| > MSC 9003/Blue Ridge
| > Harrisonburg, VA 22807
| > 540-568-8797
| > 888-637-8494
| > brownpg@jmu.edu
| > http://web.jmu.edu/esol
| > http://web.jmu.edu/mainstva
| >
|
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