Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i0R6INI13725; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:18:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:18:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <233D8436.698938E8.0AB94E44@aol.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: AndresMuro@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9810] RE: Florida registration forms X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Status: O Content-Length: 5636 Lines: 110 Dottie: Depending on who funds the program, the classes may be considered k-12, even if they are offered at a CC. So, if the state dept of ed is paying for ABE classes, they will certainly be considered k-12 students. If the college is paying for the classes with institutional money, then, it is higher ed money and students need to have an f 1/f2 h1/h2 visa or another type of visa, legal residency or citizenship. Again, it all depends where the money is comming from and what stipulations do those funds have. If the funds say they have to be used for green men with one eye, then you have to do that. However, as long as they are green, men, and have one eye, it doesn't matter what legal status they have or what planet they come from. Carl Perkins money is interesting, for example. It says that it must be used for poor people to provide vocational education and support services. If you are going to serve students with these funds, all you can do is verify that they are poor. Interestingly, to get a job in the US you must have legal residency, citizenship, etc. However, a Carl Perkins program person cannot require people to have legal residency to attend. Again, you are only limited by the grant requirements. Regarding INS, they work closely with the office that handles foreign students. they verify that students have the proper visas, paperwork, and that they are meeting the requirements of that visa. Undocumented students don't have visas, and they do not go though the international student office to enroll. they enroll in free continuing education classes which don't require student visas. INS don't know who these students are and what their status is, so they will, most likely, leave them alone. Andres In a message dated 1/26/2004 8:24:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Dottie Shattuck" <dottie@shattuck.net> writes: >Andres -- how would these regs apply to a community college that offers 2 kinds of >adult ESL, i.e., "Basic Skills/Literacy" (free classes, non-credit) & EFL (fees, >grades)? > >Dottie Shattuck >Charlotte, NC >& >York County, SC > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Andres Muro" <AndresM@epcc.edu> >To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 6:16 PM >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9806] RE: Florida registration forms > > >| By law, programs offering K-12 education cannot deny access to anyone based on >immigration status. This was ruled in Plyler vs DOE (1982). Moreover, K-12 >education programs cannot come up with requests for documentation, IDs, social >security numbers, work permits or visas. They cannot post signs requesting that >people bring a social security number in order to register. If students lack a >social security number or ID, the school is required to provide a student ID >number. >| >| With adults, it gets tricky. If adults are attending a program considered a >post-secondary education program, they must obtain a student visa (F1). However, >if they are attending a K-12 program, such as GED, or pre GED they fall under >Plyler vs DOE. >| >| Also, while I am not sure, believe that INS does not do raids of schools. >Schools are supposed to be considered sanctuaries. this was done to prevent >parents to pull their kids from school. However, this may also applies to GED >programs. >| >| What you need to do is determine if your school is considered a K-12 or >post-secondary education program. You need to determine where the money is coming >from. If it is ABE money, it is considered K-12, and Plyler vs DOE should apply. >| >| If it is post-secondary, INS can check to ensure that students have F1 visas. >INS doesn't usually raid educational programs. If INS contacts your school >inquiring about student status, your administrator needs to inform them the type >of your school, and what your funding dictates that you do. Again, if it is ABE >funding, the DOE and the Federal Register have already determined who you are >serving, and what you can ask. If you go beyond that, you are acting beyond your >authority and you are not using the funds for their intended purpose. If anyone >needs more info about this, please let me know. >| >| Andres >| >| >| >>> bodman@ucc.edu 01/26/04 03:07PM >>> >| I understand--not from direct sources--that the FBI communicated that they >| might make unannounced visits to ESL programs to "review student files". >| When this "audit" has happened in the past and word of it spread among >| students in the programs, students have fled the programs for several >| semesters--afraid, if not for themselves, for fear of being questioned about >| relatives or friends. Some programs lost as many as 1/3 of their students. >| >| Jean Bodman >| Union County College >| bodman@ucc.edu >| Work: 908-965-6096 >| Home: 609-695-6567 >| >| >| -----Original Message----- >| From: Sandees32605@aol.com [mailto:Sandees32605@aol.com] >| Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 4:56 PM >| To: Multiple recipients of list >| Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9804] RE: Florida registration forms >| >| >| >| In a message dated 1/26/04 4:23:52 PM, bodman@ucc.edu writes: >| >| << They were >| "threatened" with unannounced raids, if they did not comply. Now a number >| of colleges have very quietly backed off this and are admitting students >| without proof. >> >| >| Just curious. Who was threatening? We were being 'threatened' with an >| audit >| by (I gather) the state DOE. >| >| I really appreciate your response and the information. >| Hope it's not quite as cold in NJ as the news is reporting. >| Sue Sandeen >| Florida >| >| >| > > > -- go here: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html
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