Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i2C06tI22482; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:06:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:06:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <CFA0B6B409EBD411ABBF0000F8CD206C06FECD9A@CREXC01> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: bodman@ucc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10014] Re: Fw: Diversity in staffing X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Type: text/plain; X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Status: O Content-Length: 5742 Lines: 126 I am glad to see that people are becoming more willing to speak out different points of view on this issue. Certainly, Indian English is as valid a form of English as American, or Australian, or British, or Canadian English. It is possible that beginning students who wish to learn American English are so burdened by all they have to learn in English that they cannot fully benefit from the niceties in the speech or word choice of a native speaker as opposed to those used by a near-native speaker; it is also possible that they might benefit more from native teachers as they move to the advanced stages of learning. I think that there are several issues beyond accent that are worthy of consideration. For example, research on the cross-cultural realization of sociopragmatic features (often referred to as language functions)of varieties of English and other languages have demonstrated that there are significant differences in what is said, to whom it is said, and how it is said. For example, American English differs more significantly at the pragmatic level from British English than it does at the syntactic or lexical levels. Cross-cultural misunderstanding and miscommunication can occur because conversational floors, frames, strategies, etc. differ among speech communities in important ways. With all the good intentions in the world when one is attempting to communicate well, one can (when using a way of speaking that is acceptable in one's speech community and not understood in the same way in the target community) be regarded variously as rude, pompous, crude, supercilious, lacking in comraderie, hopelessly uneducated, and so on. These differences may not be important when teaching beginning students who are indulged by native speakers; however, advanced students must grapple with those features that may serve to keep them from being accepted when they wish that acceptance. Intellectual issues aside, I think, underneath, what we are really talking about here is the issue of power in the marketplace. Non-native speakers of English want the same jobs that native speakers of English want. Both are trying to hold on to their piece of the pie. In business terms, ESL has become a "mature market." Trained, experienced ESL teachers are not as rare as they used to be twenty years ago. The interviewing process is (or should be) highly competitive. And there are not enough jobs to go around anymore; it is simply not possible to give everyone a bite at the apple. Choices must be made. Whatever criteria are used to eliminate candidates, it seems unfair and discriminatory to those not chosen. What do you think? Jean Bodman bodman@ucc.edu Work: 908-965-6096 -----Original Message----- From: arconn@juno.com [mailto:arconn@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10013] Re: Fw: Diversity in staffing This was an interesting reply. Two years ago I set up a class for people who were all from Syria. They insisted that they wanted a teacher who was from the United states. They said that they were first taught by a Syrian and she reverted to her native language when she was teaching them. They felt if someone did not understand their language, they would have to speak English. So I guess it is up to what ever the student wants! > Why then is it so essential to have native speakers of > English perceived as being the most valid teachers of > the language? On what grounds > > A correct accent is essential in my opinion to teach any language. I > have a friend who teaches ESOL with a very heavy Spanish accent, > She is not clearly intelligible in her pronunciation and her > emphasis is on the wrong syllable many times. I, my self, wouldn't > want to learn a language from someone who wasn't a native if I had > the choice. > Tanya Tweeton GED and ESOL > Fort Lauderdale, Florida > > Maria, > > > > Thanks again for another sensitive and well thought > > out response. I was taught English in India. I grew up > > speaking English, Hindi and Marathi (and understanding > > Punjabi, Gujarati and Malvani) almost simultaneously. > > And as Americans have pointed out, I *DO* have an > > accent. An Indian accent from western India, and a > > strong British pronunciation. Everyone has an accent. > > > > ESOL for me is similar to the FLE classes my son had > > to take when he started school last year in France, > > which is Francais Langue Etrangere, or French as a > > Foreign Language. What matters is communication. The > > difference between high school language lessons and > > ESOL to me is the difference between learning Language > > as a subject (and thus no real emphasis on speaking or > > communicating or learning the living spoken language) > > and learning a spoken living language. ESOL to me, > > represents the latter. We hear this all the time, "I > > had five years of Spanish/German/French in school and > > still can't speak it." That to me is a subject. And > > more often than not, we are taught this by non-native > > speakers of the language. > > > > Why then is it so essential to have native speakers of > > English perceived as being the most valid teachers of > > the language? On what grounds? Seems more of a > > sociopolitical thing to me, rather than something > > based on research or inquiry. Should it not be mastery > > of the language and the ability to teach it well be > > the reason we hire teachers? > > > > regards, > > Ujwala Samant > > > > Director > > Learning for Life UK > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > > http://search.yahoo.com > >
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