Return-Path: <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov>
Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id eAEIku908993; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:47:06 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:47:06 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <3A118B09.CCA5C190@swt.edu>
Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov
Reply-To: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov
Originator: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov
Sender: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov
Precedence: bulk
From: eileen trainor <et02@swt.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-LD:3260] RE: Help with College Prep Skills
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Distance Learning; TCC} (Win98; U)
Status: O
Content-Length: 13900
Lines: 315
In the past, people with mental retardation faced problems similar to
the problems people with learning differences are now facing. The
parents/families of the people with mental retardation got organized
and changed the system. They got the state schools closed down and
their sons and daughters into group homes or independent living
environments, into training programs, into the workplace, and into the
mainstream of American life.
I knew these people. They were pushy, opinionated, committed, and
successful. They read the law or they hired lawyers, they joined
together and lobbied, they formed boards and organizations, they
started group homes, and they held the school system accountable for
educating their children.
This is what we must do for our children with learning differences.
In the meantime, we must act as researchers and find the
program/method to teach our children. Don't give up and don't let the
system off the hook.
These thoughts are my own and I am no expert.
Eileen Trainor
Elizabeth Gifford wrote:
>
> I appreciate everyone's response to my request for help.
>
> Let me add to the recent responses a complex factor. Imagine having the
> developmental and self-advocacy requirements described. Now imagine
> having a history of chronic strain and shame around academics. The lack
> of "pro-active" efforts these kids exhibit in college doesn't come out of
> nowhere. And the danger with LD kids is that it is easier to identify the
> problem as a character defect (not pro-active enough, lazy, whatever) than
> to identify it behaviorally as a response to certain kinds of
> environmental interactions. For example, here was a constant discussion in
> our house (and no, my going in to talk to the teachers was not helpful
> once he got into high school - they seemed to resent any parental input):
>
> Mom: "Honey, you need to be a good self-advocate and tell the teacher
> when you don't understand."
>
> Kid: "Mom, I do. She just tells me the same thing over and over, and
> when I still don't understand it she gets angry with me."
>
> Imagine literally hundreds of these kinds of encounters during critical
> developmental periods (i.e., periods where kids are looking to define
> themselves in the world according to how the world responds to them).
>
> Now you have an issue that is often lumped under the term "motivation."
> Where previous school environments have had iatrogenic effects, how do you
> help a child remediate both the skill deficits, and the
> emotional/historical/behavioral patterns that have been established?
>
> That is my question. The obvious answers: find what he does well,
> encourage self-esteem, encourage him to be an effective self-advocate,
> help him get connected to the learning centers on campus, etc. The
> difficult issue: finding an environment where he can *connect* in such
> a way that he can overcome his history and begin to create a new
> positive platform to build on. This requires very special people, I am
> afraid. People who can engage kids enough to help them to confront what
> is for them the hardest and most shame filled place.
>
> Thanks again to all who responded.
>
> Liz
>
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Cheryl Howland
> wrote:
>
> > I think that the biggest issue that college students face beyond what you
> > have all expressed is a developmental one.
> > Eighteen ( or so)year olds go through a pretty rigorous process of
> > self-differentiation in their first year of college. They finalize the
> > separation of their self identity from those of the influential adults in
> > their lives.
> > This process mixed with the pressures of new found freedom and it's
> > attendant self responsibilities can create tremendous difficulties for
> > students with NO LD issues. Add to that a need for this student to begin
> > self advocating with often hostile faculty. Such self advocacy can involve
> > many difficult adult skills such as teaching, training, explaining the
> > intricacies of individual strengths and weaknesses and establishing
> > appropriate boundaries with individuals in a position of power who are
> > working with a (Socratic) method of individual proof of competence thorough
> > competition. Given this, students with learning disability and attentional
> > issues who really DO NOT KNOW THEMSELVES YET, can become easily overwhelmed
> > with these seemingly gargantuan tasks.
> >
> > It can be hard for an adult- who has already gone through adolescence and is
> > comfortable in adulthood and who has passed successfully through a process
> > of identity development around his or her disability. For a student- 18 or
> > so to be asked to do this- well nuff said.
> >
> > I have long believed that a supportive community or small college atmosphere
> > is essential for most folks with LD to spend their first two years.
> >
> > A COMMUNITY where one can self differentiate and receive positive support
> > can often offer the necessary external environment for a successful college
> > experience
> >
> > Even a workplace community in a large college can provide this kind of
> > support so long as the supervisors understand the intricacies of
> > supervising students.
> >
> > Service Learning is another community where this sort of thing can occur.
> >
> > I would be inclined to respect this young mans fears and to look for
> > solutions to his educational needs that are supportive of all of those
> > needs.
> >
> > Just a few thoughts....
> >
> > Cheryl Howland, M.Ed., C.A.G.S.
> > Biological Sciences Library
> > UMASS, Amherst
> > 413-545-2674
> > cherylh@library.umass.edu
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Evelyn Brown <ebrown@parkland.cc.il.us>
> > To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov>
> > Date: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:28 AM
> > Subject: [NIFL-LD:3256] RE: Help with College Prep Skills
> >
> >
> > I would like to add to this. The student needs to be aware of the
> > disability and his/her specific needs and also knowledgeable in the use of
> > strategies and accommodations. In the program we have at Parkland College,
> > one of my biggest frustrations is the student that doesn't feel comfortable
> > with accommodations or doesn't want to use them until failure is imminent.
> > At that point our services become a salvage operation not the combination
> > that could have been used for success.
> > Evelyn Brown
> >
> > >>> June_Crawford@ed.gov 11/13/00 03:47PM >>>
> > I ran a college program for a number of years and we started taking students
> > with diagnosed learning disabilities in 1983. We had a good record of
> > retaining and graduating the students, but it requires a sensitive system
> > that not only understands the legal necessity of reasonable accommodations,
> > but personnel and faculty who care enough to learn about learning
> > disabilities and student needs. Some of the books that discuss college
> > services will list LD services, but I believe the student and parents need
> > to go to the school, check out the system, make sure the place can
> > accommodate the specific needs of the student, and make certain the
> > professionals working with the student understand INSTRUCTION! Many places
> > say they accept students with disabilities. They will give extra time for
> > testing or private testing rooms, or make arrangements for use of a word
> > processor for written exams, etc., but if they do not have faculty and
> > tutors who are trained to assist students, and can demonstrate that what
> > they do that is different from what they do for every other student, I would
> > be cautious. Remedial programs at the college level are not the answer.
> > The faculty and professional staff really need to have training in LD and be
> > interested enough in this area of student service to have learned how
> > students need to be taught - not just the accommodations, although these are
> > necessary as part of the package. Anything less is not a good choice for
> > most students.
> >
> > June Justice Crawford
> > Learning Disabilities Program Associate
> > National Institute For Literacy
> > 202-233-2064 Phone
> > 202-233-2050 Fax
> > jcrawford@nifl.gov
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eileen Trainor [mailto:et02@swt.edu]
> > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 5:59 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> > Subject: [NIFL-LD:3253] RE: Help with College Prep Skills
> >
> >
> > Learning Outside the Lines, by Jonathan Mooney and David Cole, is a
> > wonderful
> > book for individuals with learning differences who are attending college.
> > It
> > is written by two individuals, one with a learning disability and one with
> > attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, who overcame the system and
> > graduated with honors from college.
> >
> > Another resource is the website, http://www.learningdifferences.com
> > This web site has inexpensive tools that you can use to help your son in
> > math,
> > reading, and vocabulary. I know this because I am using the tools to help
> > my
> > son (age 11) because the system is failing him.
> >
> > If your son decides to try again, make sure he knows that he must document
> > his
> > disability to get accomodations in class, testing, etc. There are also
> > support groups on the larger campuses. It is important that he know he is
> > not
> > alone in this . . .
> >
> > Good luck and God bless.
> >
> > Eileen Trainor
> >
> >
> > >===== Original Message From nifl-ld@nifl.gov =====
> > >My son has decided college "is not for me" since he did not get the skills
> > >he needed to overcome his moderate learning disability (works hard but
> > >unsuccessfully in community college classes). If he is willing,
> > >I would like to send him somewhere he could acquire the "learning how to
> > >learn" skills that he needs (unfortunately he grew up in a rural area and
> > >has no faith in tutoring after several bad/indifferent experiences -- not
> > >to mention the trauma from bad/indifferent teachers without understanding
> > >or interest in learning disabilities).
> > >
> > >I would tremendously appreciate any specific info on resouces/experiences
> > >with specific programs (Landmark college? Lindamood and Bell?). He is a
> > >personable guy and resents having been put in classes with developmentally
> > >disabled folks and is very suspicious of services.
> > >
> > >Thanks so much. Liz
> > >
> > >> What is the name of the specific program you used (Lindamood's
> > >> and Bell's programs)? Thanks. mag@sover.net
> > >>
> > >> Denton Kurtz wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > June,
> > >> > What a perfect place to put the special programs that we know remediate
> > >> > learning disabilities. A captive audience that would be highly
> > motivated.
> > >> > When we do intensive training of 4 hours a day 5 days a week, we are
> > able
> > to
> > >> > get years of change in a matter of weeks. One of our first clients was
> >
> > our
> > >> > son who had been in the public schools LD program for 9 years but
> > graduated
> > >> > with a 6th reading level. After 114 hours of intensive training using
> > >> > Lindamood's and Bell's programs he was reading at the college level.
> > He
> > >> > went back to college where he had failed even with the "special help",
> > and
> > >> > graduated 3 years later with a 3.0 average.
> > >> > Denton Kurtz
> > >> > the Kurtz Center
> > >> > Winter Park, FL
> > >> > www.learningdisabilities.com
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: Crawford, June <June_Crawford@ed.gov>
> > >> > To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov>
> > >> > Date: Thursday, November 09, 2000 11:53 AM
> > >> > Subject: [NIFL-LD:3239] Literacy and Prisons
> > >> >
> > >> > >Tom Woods mentioned that his program is located in a prison. I am
> > curious,
> > >> > >Tom, about the training of the faculty. Have they been trained in
> > Bridges
> > >> > >to Practice or in any of the reading programs that stress phonemic
> > >> > >awareness? The incidence of learning disabilities in prisons is high,
> >
> > and
> > >> > >yet the average sentence, nationwide, is only five years, and then
> > people
> > >> > >are back out on the street on probation/parole. Without an education,
> > >> > >and/or an ability to navigate the job market through the use of
> > assistive
> > >> > >technology (and a diagnosis of LD for legal purposes) the chances of
> > >> > >recidivism are greatly increased. The New York State Department of
> > >> > >Corrections just decided to train a team of trainers for the prison
> > system
> > >> > >so their faculty can all get training. Several other states have done
> >
> > the
> > >> > >same. I wonder how many of our listserv members are aware of any
> > training
> > >> > >being done in prisons in their state?
> > >> > >
> > >> > >I am "off the air" until Monday, but will look for responses at that
> > point.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >June Justice Crawford
> > >> > >Learning Disabilities Program Associate
> > >> > >National Institute For Literacy
> > >> > >202-233-2064 Phone
> > >> > >202-233-2050 Fax
> > >> > >jcrawford@nifl.gov
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> ============================
> > >> http://www.sover.net/~mag/
> > >>
> > >
> > >Elizabeth V. Gifford
> > >Project Director
> > >UNR Smoking Cessation Project
> > >Department of Psychology / 298
> > >Reno, NV 89557
> > >
> > >(775) 784-1395
> >
> > Eileen Trainor, Grant Coordinator
> > Project Inter-ALT http://cie.ci.swt.edu/interalt
> > Texas Crime Stoppers http://www.crimestoppers.swt.edu
> > Center for Initiatives in Education
> > Southwest Texas State University
> > San Marcos, TX
> > et02@swt.edu
> > 512 245 9047
> >
> >
>
> Elizabeth V. Gifford
> Project Director
> UNR Smoking Cessation Project
> Department of Psychology / 298
> Reno, NV 89557
>
> (775) 784-1395
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Tue Jan 16 2001 - 14:42:23 EST