Return-Path: <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f5MCKKf04108; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3B333759.11AB23EC@ellijay.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: Art LaChance <arthur@ellijay.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-LD:3542] Re: Encouraging Kids to Drop Out X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) Status: O Content-Length: 4004 Lines: 78 Tom, My comments were directed at the whole concept, not individualistic situations which may carry their own set of parameters. What I hear and see is that "school counselors" are not really "counselors". They are not trained as such nor do they have the interpersonal experience levels that would allow them to make "best" decisions or to accurately "advise" families or students as to the students best route. They may be trained as curriculum advisors or some other vague qualifications but my understanding is that they as a unit don't have the extensive "counselor" type training that would permit them to deal effectively with children's issues. They may posess an overview of counselor type functions and some psychological training certainly, but most don't have the age nor wisdom or experience factors to go with it. And one or two of these guys per school building is not enough. And I realize that local systems don't want to go into "counseling" of students, "liability issues" or something. But reality tells us on this end that if we choose not to go there we will pay the price one way or the other. It just makes infinitely more sense to me to deal with it at the age where these things can be remedied easily rather than waiting until the mind set is written in concrete and unaffected by social pressure. I would think that if we provided the necessary real "guidance" and support mechanisms for successful school experiences early on everybody benefits. I know this works because I've been a part of it. I've suggested here before that we as a society need to take this on and solve it via an interdiscplinary advisory board rather than rely on those trained by the defunct system to course correct it. Ninety percent of us see absolutely nothing wrong with the way we do business, most of us can ignore reality and rationalize perfectly why we need to do what we do, ineffective as it may be. Art Art LaChance Gilmer Learning Center Ellijay, GA Woods wrote: > Art wrote: > > This is gross negligence on the part of public school > > administration. And yes the student, as an adult now, resists going > > back. And why not. Look what that system did to them the first time. > > > > We need to fix this. Yesterday. > > I'm troubled about some of this. On one hand I'm disturbed when I hear about > schools encouraging kids to drop out. On the other hand I can envision > situations where I'd question whether encouraging a kid to drop out is gross > negligence. > > There is something very accepting and respectful in not judging or trying to > interfere with one's decisions, including the decision of whether or not to > drop out. Maybe the student is making a mistake, maybe not. Regardless, he > or she will learn from the decision. Maybe the student is not ready to > complete school at this time; maybe he or she is ready to learn other > lessons outside of school. Maybe he or she will be more ready to complete > school in the future. Maybe not interfering with one's choice to drop out, > and even encouraging him or her to follow his or her instincts is better in > the long run, and will keep the door open for the student to return when he > or she is ready. > > One thing I can say about many of my students is that when they get older > they are much more interested, more eager, more dedicated more receptive to > learning. The young ones are resistant, they don't want to work toward > something that is so intangible, so far off. Like Mark Twain suggested, the > 17 year olds already know everything. > > It could be in some cases that a guidance counselor is acknowledging and > accepting a student's decision to drop out, knowing that the school has > little to offer the student given the school's and the student's present > situation. It's just not black and white for me. Maybe it could be made > clearer by asking whether we are putting the school's or the student's > wishes and needs, as he or she has determined them, first. > > Tom
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