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From: Anne Murr <anne.murr@DRAKE.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-LD:3728] Re: NIFL-LD digest 1180
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Donita, what computer program do you use that motivates your
students? The one we used did not.
Vicki, I just took a quick look at The Learning Edge on-line
newspaper. The reading skills required look quite high. What about
the beginnng reader?
Tom, let me know when you've done that timing test. Yes, text
containing words with more syllables should take longer to read than
shorter words. Will timing silent reading by syllables per minute
than than by wpm demonstrate anything other than longer words are
harder to read than shorter words?
Clif, I will respond to you in person - no need for off-the-list
anonymity. I first learned about adults with reading problems (and
now children also) by working with them, seeing their struggles,
hearing their pain. I did not begin reading the research until after
we began using OG when I took research courses for a masters in adult
education.
When I say that persons failed to learn to read, I do NOT blame them.
The system did not teach them. Yes, persons who have reading
disabilities do get PhDs. I agree with you - schools do abuse
students and then blame them for not being successful. We must
change that!
"Have I asked my students what is going on in their heads when they
are tring to read?" Yes, I do ask adults what reading is like for
them - why they want to learn to read better. I do listen. I do
care. Just this morning I just with a woman who can read and write -
dropped out of school after 8th grade and then completed a GED. She
said she wants to be a better reader and she needs to spell better.
Here's a quote (unsolicited!) "The vowels and consonants don't come
out right. I know I don't say all the words right."
Mispronouncing words is another aspect of dyslexia. That's another
manifestation of not perceiving the sounds of language. Visual
misperception may play a part in some people's reading problems, but
it doesn't play a major role for most persons. (I won't cite the
research because you choose to dismiss it.)
You quote R. Lyon's statement about reading problems causing school
failure and then you say "It is totally unnecessary and an utter
disgrace that it is allowed to continue." That's exactly the point
Lyon was making! He does not, as you imply, "accept failure as
inevitable." The rest of his statement describes how children learn
to read - the necessity that children (and adults) be taught phonemic
awareness and how to apply the alphabetic principle.
Lyon does not ignore the need for accommodations, He is
communicating that children can be taught to read so they don't need
accommodations. The tragedy is that too many educators are too busy
debating viewpoints and do not give necessary instruction to the 30%
of the population that has difficulty hearing the sounds in words and
connecting the sounds to letters.
--
Anne Murr, Coordinator
Adult Literacy Center
School of Education
Drake University
3206 University Ave.
Des Moines, IA 50311
anne.murr@drake.edu
Tel 515-271-3982
Fax 515-271-4544
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
--></style><title>Re: [NIFL-LD:3700] NIFL-LD digest
1180</title></head><body>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000">Donita, what
computer program do you use that motivates your students? The
one we used did not.</font></div>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000">Vicki, I just took a
quick look at The Learning Edge on-line newspaper. The reading
skills required look quite high. What about the beginnng
reader?</font></div>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000">Tom, let me know
when you've done that timing test. Yes, text containing words
with more syllables should take longer to read than shorter words.
Will timing silent reading by syllables per minute than than by wpm
demonstrate anything other than longer words are harder to read than
shorter words?</font></div>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000">Clif, I will respond
to you in person - no need for off-the-list anonymity. I first
learned about adults with reading problems (and now children also) by
working with them, seeing their struggles, hearing their pain. I
did not begin reading the research until after we began using OG when
I took research courses for a masters in adult education. <br>
<br>
When I say that persons failed to learn to read, I do NOT blame them.
The system did not teach them. Yes, persons who have reading
disabilities do get PhDs. I agree with you - schools do abuse
students and then blame them for not being successful. We must
change that!<br>
<br>
"Have I asked my students what is going on in their heads when
they are tring to read?" Yes, I do ask adults what reading
is like for them - why they want to learn to read better. I do
listen. I do care. Just this morning I just with a
woman who can read and write - dropped out of school after 8th grade
and then completed a GED. She said she wants to be a better
reader and she needs to spell better. Here's a quote
(unsolicited!) "The vowels and consonants don't come out
right. I know I don't say all the words
right."</font><br>
<font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000"></font></div>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000">Mispronouncing words
is another aspect of dyslexia. That's another manifestation of
not perceiving the sounds of language. Visual misperception may
play a part in some people's reading problems, but it doesn't play
a major role for most persons. (I won't cite the research
because you choose to dismiss it.)</font></div>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000"><br>
You quote R. Lyon's statement about reading problems causing school
failure and then you say "It is totally unnecessary and an
utter disgrace that it is allowed to continue." That's
exactly the point Lyon was making! He does not, as you imply,
"accept failure as inevitable." The rest of his
statement describes how children learn to read - the necessity that
children (and adults) be taught phonemic awareness and how to apply
the alphabetic principle. </font><br>
<font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000"></font></div>
<div><font face="Times" size="+2" color="#000000">Lyon does not ignore
the need for accommodations, He is communicating that
children<u> can be taught to read</u> so they<u> don't need
accommodations</u>. The tragedy is that too many educators are
too busy debating viewpoints and do not give necessary instruction to
the 30% of the population that has difficulty hearing the sounds in
words and connecting the sounds to letters. </font></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="+1" color="#000000">-- <br>
Anne Murr, Coordinator</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="+1" color="#000000">Adult Literacy
Center</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="+1" color="#000000">School of
Education</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="+1" color="#000000">Drake
University</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="+1" color="#000000">3206 University
Ave.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="+1" color="#000000">Des Moines, IA
50311</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="+1"
color="#0000FF"><u>anne.murr@drake.edu</u></font><font face="Arial"
size="+1" color="#000000"></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="+1" color="#000000"> Tel
515-271-3982 </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="+1" color="#000000"> Fax
515-271-4544</font><font color="#000000"></font></div>
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