Return-Path: <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g28J2mu14500; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:02:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:02:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <973A8A3969EF064B8C462506CBA8D459106838@muxc02.marshall.edu> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Guyer, Barbara" <guyerb@Marshall.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-LD:3936] Re: Assessment of LD X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Status: O Content-Length: 5312 Lines: 116 Dear Anne, I enjoyed reading your message about MSLP for ESL students. We have a limited number of ESL students, but for the past 20 years we have been using the MSLP with college students who arrive at college with good intelligence and very poor reading/spelling skills. We iuse the Wilson Reading System with 100 Passages and other materials as seem appropriate. We have had such an amazing degree of success with people who have known only failure when they have tried to learn to read and spell. The Wilson Reading System is so great because most of what one needs is there waiting to be used. It is wise to have training for those who use it, and then you begin to see gradual and consistent progress. It is such fun to see these students begin to look up from the floor when they walk, to smile when they see you, and to begin to make better grades in their classes. We have had many students begin to cry when they read their first short book -- it is such a relief to them to realize that there is a brain in their skull that works .. and just possibly isn't retarded. I know you were writing about testing, but I couldn't resist. Have a good weekend! It is sunny and 70 degrees here in the mountains of West Virginia. Barbara Guyer, Director, H.E.L.P., Marshall University -----Original Message----- From: Anne Murr [mailto:anne.murr@DRAKE.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-LD:3927] Re: Assessment of LD My comments follow yours, Susan. > >How can we know a person has a learning disability without the >>expensive diagnosis by a psychologist? The legal/formal definition >>of LD is a discrepancy of at least one standard definition between IQ >>and functioning in reading and/or math. The LD label does not inform >>he educator about the nature or extent of the person's learning >>difficulties. > >Correct. However, it would be very helpful to us if we could know >whether the reason this student struggles with the sounds is a >"typical" problem people have when switching languages, or whether >these difficulties are signs of a problem processing those soudns. I do not have much experience using multisensory, structured language programs (MSLP) with ESL students. But what I have observed is this: persons without language-based learning difficulties respond to instruction and begin to assimilate new language information at a moderate pace. If a person just doesn't seem to "get it", or as you say "struggles with the sounds", he or she probably has a reading LD because its main characteristic is not perceiving sounds in words. (Hope I'm not just talking in circles-it's getting late ;-) And MSLP can be helpful to any ESL student because it directly teaches the English phonology and in the case of the Wilson Reading System, the structure of our language, i.e., digraphs, blends, syllable types, suffix and prefix rules, etc. > >We can easily identify if a person has a reading LD by asking him or >>her to tell you the sounds that go with letters. If they are not >>able to do this, they will not be able to read or spell well. > Well, not in this case. Because reading is not her native language, she may not know the sounds that go with the letters because she doesn't know the language, not because of a problem with the process of making that association. My response: What's wrong with teaching her the sounds that go with the letters? Start there. Without that foundation, does English make sense? >In order to "teach them" best, knowing the nature of the problems is >important. >I've had some fairly extensive experience using structured, >multisensory language programs with students with LDs. It's simply >not as simple as "teach them." What difficulties do you see students have when using such language programs? We have been using the Wilson Reading System for about 2 1/2 years and our students are making varying rates of progress depending on prior knowledge, experience, other cognitive resources, etc. However, progress is slow for most learners and most are still at the beginning level. > It's especially not as simple when she's not enrolled in a class >that teaches those sound-symbol connections; she's enrolled in a >college writing class. Her teacher wants to give her the best chance >of succeeding at this class given the available resources. College places so many demands beyond merely decoding and basic word structure. It's wonderful that the professor is willing to work with her. Can she use a spell-checker? Can she have someone proof-read her work? Structuring thoughts in writing can also be very difficult for persons with language-based learning disabilities. I have worked with only one college student with LD, and his language skills were too far behind to be successful in college. But after just 3 lessons in working with basic letter-sound correspondences for reading and for spelling, he exclaimed, "This is productive! Learning is fun!" Words were making sense to him for the first time in his life. Anne -- Anne Murr, Coordinator Adult Literacy Center School of Education Drake University 3206 University Ave. Des Moines, IA 50311 anne.murr@drake.edu Tel 515-271-3982 Fax 515-271-4544
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