[NIFL-LD:3950] The ceiling effect

From: john.makay@excite.com
Date: Thu Mar 14 2002 - 15:45:58 EST 

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From: "john.makay@excite.com" <john.makay@excite.com>
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Subject: [NIFL-LD:3950] The ceiling effect
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Dear Barbara,

Thank you for being so prompt in answering my letter. I am a bit reluctant to post at times. The tone is often so academic, and I feel a bit inferior with some of my questions. Yet, I have found the meaningful dialogue and occasional "ruffling of feathers" the spice of the list.serv and thus quite engaging as a learning vehicle most needed for educators and policy makers. Personally, I have learned a great deal in the last three days. This list.serv has answered questions that I have pondered at great length, questions that for years have gone unanswered through channels in my traditional learning community. . . . getting back to my question.

I am asking about a "ceiling effect" (first mentioned by Clif) where adult students with dyslexia tend to reach a limit of a 5.9 grade level in reading. If Clif's assumption is correct, this has great implications for programming in literacy education across the country. In other words, it seems to support a model where reading instruction must be tempered with accomodation at a certain point in the education cycle of some of our students. As Clif points out . . . all students with normal comprehension abilities should have the opportunity to go to college or pursue other life and work choices that formally required a high level of literacy.

Please don't misinterpret my meaning here. I find literacy a valid goal as most of the industrialized world functions under this paradigm, but possibly, this goal should not be our only focus. This thought might be frightening for some.

So, again I ask you to help me get to the bottom of this. I understand that many have had great success getting some students to a very high level using OT and other phonics based methods. In fact, in your message, you mentioned that you had success with some individuals in reading and spelling where students were reading on a twelfth grade level. Yet, my question remains unanswered. Does a "ceiling effect" actually exist for a specific group of students, and if so, how many fall into this catagory. What common characteristics do these students have?

Barbara, thank you again for giving me some leads. Yet, I open up this question again. If anyone has experiential or research-based information to this effect, please, let us look at it carefully together.

Thank you for helping me to establish the ground rules.

John

John Makay
ESL Instructor
Baltimore City Community College
600 E. Lombard St.
Baltimore, MD 21214
(410) 986-5430 







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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:58:59 -0500
Subject: Research on the ceiling effect adults with dyslexia
Dear Andrea,

Thank you for being so prompt in answering my letter. I am a bit reluctant to post at times. The tone is often so academic, and I feel a bit inferior with some of my questions. Yet, I have found the meaningful dialogue and "cat fights" the spice of the list.serv and regardless of the occasional laps in civility, this is a phenomenon most needed for educators and policy makers. I have learned a great deal in such a short period of time. It is truly amazing.

Sorry for diverging here. I just wanted to say that Clif seems brilliant and very dedicated to his ideas. He also seems to have a great deal of energy in analyzing many of the messages, an energy that leaves me at the starting gate by comparison.

Getting back to the point at hand. You mentioned in your kind message that you might be able to send me some research on information that documents this "ceiling effect" where adult students with dyslexia tend to reach a limit of a 5.9 grade level in reading. If Clif's assumption is correct, this has great implications for programing in literacy education across the country. In other words, it seems to support a model where reading instruction must be tempered with accomodation and a certain point in the education cycle of some students. This information would suggest that educators redirect their constant push for literacy with a small group of individuals under certain circumstances. With this group, they might focus on teaching students to aquire information in other ways so that all students with normal comprehension abilities will have the opportunity to go to college or pursue other life and work choices that formally required a high level of literacy.

Please don't misinterpret my meaning hear, I find literacy a valid goal as most of the world functions under this paradigm, but possibly, this goal should not be our only focus.

Thank you for helping me to establish the ground rules.

John

John Makay
ESL Instructor
Baltimore City Community College
600 E. Lombard St.
Baltimore, MD 21214
(410) 986-5430



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