Return-Path: <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id j3IHVpG11207; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <s263a7d6.072@gwia.parkland.edu> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Susan Jones" <SUJones@parkland.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-LD:4717] Fwd: [NIFL-LD4714] Re:Expanding Discussion on X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Status: O Content-Length: 5633 Lines: 98 I provide "academic support" to developmental students. Actually, I spend probably 90% of my tutoring time in math. We've had some animated discussions as to why this is so, since IMHO (and others who see student reading skills up close & personal) there is just as much need for help in reading, even though there is much less demand for help in reading. I also help in whatever other classes a student may be struggling with, though the possibilities are extremely finite since if you are a developmental student, the courses you can sign up for are limited. Tutoring in math is a real challenge, since to do it well I need to perceive where a student's concepts are and where anxiety is running interference, and what kind of thinker the student is... oh, and then try to figure out the *teacher's* approach so that the student can succeed in that class. Fortunately the school is devoted to developmental ed and has a coordinator that has set up a structured curriculum, with the same text & reinforcement materials... unfortuantely a few of the instructors don't see the need to use them. Many of the same principles of teaching basic reading skills apply to math * student ownership of why they're doing th is, and the *real* bugbear, mastering something before moving on. Aaargh, the courses go too fast for most people. The success rate for getting through math 95 & 98 in two consecutive semesters is 11%. I'm not sure what the success rate for Math 094 (basic pre-algebra, the prereq for many career track math courses) is. There's been some success with building in an extra hour of instruction for some sections of 094 and 095; there's a strong nudge happening towards creating a 2-semester version, though that has its logistical issues. (We have independent modules, too * but they are not particularly effective. THey're great in theory * learn at your own pace, master and then move forward * but in reality there isn't enough instructional time and these aren't students who can figure this stuff out on their own, dhu!, and since students have to set their own hours, it happens inconsistently.) As I said, I've had to duly note that students seem as drawn to the cameraderie as to the high-quality tutoring * though I think *both* are absolutely necessary. We're looking into software apps that students could plug away at, and I'm curious * I know that some students are a whole lot less nervous working on a computer, and that's **huge** when it comes to math. It's 81 degrees, in April... I'm surprised to see *anybody* in our building :-) I think I'm grateful I don't have an outside window! Susan Jones Academic Development Specialist Academic Development Center Parkland College Champaign, IL 61821 sujones@parkland.edu Webmastress, http://www.resourceroom.net >>> RKenyon721@aol.com 4/15/2005 6:49:30 PM >>> Hello John, Thank you for your response. I do agree that all the comments and questions to the list have broad application in our field working with adults. I also know that as a field we work on self-advocacy, social skills, math, organizational skills, and on - and on - and on, etc. I would like to open the discussion from reading into other deficit areas our learners might experience. Would someone like to share information about programs and services that your school/agency offers that involve other content areas? Thank you, Rochelle Kenyon Moderator, NIFL-Learning Disabilities Discussion List _RKenyon721@AOL.com_ (mailto:RKenyon721@AOL.com) ----------------- Forwarded Message: Subj:[NIFL-LD:4714] Re: Expanding Discussion on LD Date:4/15/2005 3:41:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time From:jn@cloudworld.co.uk Reply-to:nifl-ld@nifl.gov To:nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Sent from the Internet (Details) Hello Rochelle, I think some lessons from the "phonics first and fast" approach can be applied more broadly. I have a degree in Natural Sciences, so I am always looking for a scientific basis for any theories. This for me is even stronger than "evidence based" theories. The "phonics first and fast" seems to me to have a good scientific explanation for its success. The Clackmannenshire study is evidence to support that explanation. I have a feeling that "educationalists" put more weight on the psychology of having the right "learning environment", and "suiting the teaching to the pupil", with such phrases as "every pupil is different". This has been called the "top down" approach, versus "phonics arguments" being bottom up. I have no objections to this. But I am always wanting to get at the fundamentals, which you find from examining the bottom up, and being as analytical as possible. And I have no worries that the learners might be discouraged by having "pure phonics", or "phonics too early", or an unduly "formal" introduction to reading, as some people have. For example, the second of the Commons Select Committee "conclusions" is: Reading for pleasure 2. Whatever method is used in the early stages of teaching children to read,we are convinced that inspiring an enduring enjoyment of reading should be a key objective. This can be endangered both by an overly formal approach in the early years and by a failure to teach decoding.(Paragraph 39) See http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Education/documents/2005/04/06/reading.p df Cheers, John Cloudworld Ltd - http://www.cloudworld.co.uk maker of the assistive reader, WordAloud. Tel: +44 208 742 3170 Fax: +44 208 742 0202 Email: _info@cloudworld.co.uk_ (mailto:info@cloudworld.co.uk)
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