Return-Path: <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id j9LKmsG22202; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <20051021204737.84087.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: tom zurinskas <tzurinskas@yahoo.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-LD:4950] Re: LD and intensive phonics X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Status: O Content-Length: 19685 Lines: 681 In truespel book One I analyze a pretty robust vocabulary of about 20k root words and their morphs, suffixes and prefixes. I counted all the ways the sounds of English are spelled and ranked them. I found about 400 ways of spelling the 40 sounds of English. This is a more reasonable number to use than 1,000 for an average vocabulary. Indeed 20k words is probably way above an average personal vocabulary. Truespel is designed to replace the present phonetic spelling guides in all our dictionaries, which still use special symbols and thus are mostly useless. Learners of English with truespel can learn the phonetic spelling first using English friendly spellings and thus need only learn 1 way to spell each sound. Learning 40 sound spellings can do the trick for initial reading and writing. Couldn't be easier. Then as Clackmannanshire does, learners go on to transition to the hard stuff, which in this case is traditional spelling. This is not a problem as proven by the "writing to read" approach. The important thing is that learners learn that it's our inconsistent spelling that is the problem, not them. tz > > -----Original Message----- > From: nifl-ld@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-ld@nifl.gov]On > Behalf Of > robinschwarz1@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:49 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-LD:4943] Re: LD and intensive phonics > > John has a point about "synthetic phonics"--the > process of making > English more predictable to decode. It has been > observed by numerous > researchers in the last decade that relatively few > persons show up with > reading problems (called dyslexia when reading is a > very > difficult skill to acquire) in languages which are > more "transparent" > or regular in their orthography--e.g. Italian, > Hungarian, Finnish, > Korean-. The effect of learning in those language > is the same as with > the synthetic phonics John is discussing-- the > sound-symbol system is > completely regular and easy to predict. I observed > that in Italy, for > example, children are able to spell almost every > word in Italian by > second grade because Italian is so regular. > > Because of this phenomenon, it was believed for a > time that there was > no dyslexia in these languages. But studies such as > the one Ken Pugh > and others have done show that the anomaly that > causes difficulty > in becoming a fluent reader is present in persons in > all cultures and > languages. It is only that their compensatory > skills--provided either > by the language they are learning in, or in the case > of English, by > extremely skilled teaching and hard work--have > allowed them to overcome > the anomaly. Recent attempts to find out if in > fact dyslexia-- or > that brain anomaly--could be detected have shown > that readers in these > transparent languages who have the anomaly still > read more slowly > relative to their non-impaired peers--though on an > absolute scale > comparing ALL readers, their slower reading is hard > to detect. > > Many features of English contribute to its being > such a difficult > language for those persons with dyslexia--i.e. the > well-documented > brain anomaly causing the processing of the sound > symbol association to > occur in other places in the brain. > > First, of course, is the incredible range of sounds > and symbols a > skilled reader must deal with. The figure of 1,100 > -- maybe more- of > actual graphemes (That is, ways we represent sounds) > in English has > come across my radar screen recently. This requires > amazing > flexibility of the brain. . > > Second is the fact that up through second grade at > least, more than > half of the words needed to be a fluent reader are > "sight words"--words > that cannot be easily put into phonological > categories. Thus an > English reader must learn not just the phonics of > English, but a body > of sight words at the same time. It requires that a > truly skilled > reader have an excellent SIGHT, or visual memory, > --as well as skill in > sound symbol association > > Thirds, add to that the fact that English has, as we > know, parallel > vocabularies-- the Anglo-Saxon and the Norman, plus > who knows how many > others, which results in an incredibly large > lexicon--or number of > words that we use. ( the most recent OED has over > 800,000 words in > it, WAY more than any other language on the planet) > This means a > reader must be skilled at understanding and using > synonyms and multiple > meanings of words (some piece of literature I found > pointed out that in > one child's basal reader, the word "play" was used > in 5 different ways > in about three pages!!). English VALUES > variation--which means that > when learners learn to read, unless the text is > highly controlled, they > do NOT see the same words--and the same patterns of > words-- over and > over as does a reader in Italian, for example. > > Fourth, because of the size and multi-lingual nature > of the language, a > skilled reader must have a good understanding of and > use of > morphology--the pieces and parts that make up > English. Otherwise, as > those of us who have tutored hard core non-readers > know, every word is > a new word. This understanding of the word > parts--roots and affixes-- > develops relatively late in the literacy process. > > and fifth, one of the fundamental skills required to > be literate is > phonological AWARENESS--that is, to put it simply, > the understanding of > the sound chunks of a language and that these chunks > can be > manipulated. Weakness in phonological awareness > has been shown time > and again to be strongly associated with dyslexia. > So what synthetic > phonics appears to be doing is addressing this > fundamental weakness in > beginning readers before the weakness interferes > with their attempt to > make sense of print. > > In English, one of the most fundamental constructs > of sound--and > requirements in phonological awareness-- is the > rhyme scheme, made up > of units known as onset-rhyme--that is, the > beginning of the unit , /c/ > and the rime (spelled rime because it refers to the > unit, not the > function) -/at/. Nearly every English word is > constructed this way, > either simple words or in the syllables in longer > words, and if a > learner is not fundamentally skilled in hearing and > constructing rhyme, > then reading is VERY difficult, if not impossible. > Try it-- ask a > struggling reader you know to produce rhymes for > simple words. I have > repeatedly had amazing success with severely > impaired readers by > working at getting them to hear and produce > rhyme--often a LONG > process! > > But finally, I want to add my voice to those who > caution that many > things may be going on. Not all people who struggle > to read have > phonological problems or phonological awareness > difficulties. There > is a good body of research and plenty of evidence to > show that many who > have mastered the system but do not read well have > visual difficulties > that interfere with reading. Vision functions in > poor readers need to > be checked routinely--all vision functions, not just > near and far point > acuity, but binocularityand tracking-- how the eyes > focus on one point > and then move smoothly across print. I cannot even > count the > struggling readers I have assessed who have ONLY > this difficulty-- and > some who have both this and phonological problems. > These visual > problems can be addressed in young peobinocularity > ple with vision > therapy and in older readers with prisms that offset > many of the > problems. > > And finally, because I won't probably jump in again > for a while, let me > agree with some who have said that dyslexia, which > is a real condition, > does not affect just reading. It may be associated > with a broader > spectrum of learning disabilities, which are > difficult to manage in > real life. And my own concern is that if dyslexia > exists, foreign > language learning is often, if not usually, > significantly impacted. A > person who has had no difficulty reading in their > first language, > either because of good teaching or because the > language was not > difficult to master, but who has the brain anomaly > referred to earlier, > is very likely to have a lot of difficulty when > encountering a foreign > language. > > So let us not dismiss dyslexia as a result of poor > teaching. It is > true that most who end up with reading problems > could have been helped > early on to avoid these problems, but the difficulty > is real and should > not be swept aside in an effort to show the > effectiveness of a good > reading program. > > Robin Schwarz, > Specialist in LD/ ESOL > Partner, The TLP Group > Columbus, OH > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Kohring <akohring@utk.edu> > To: Multiple recipients of list > <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> > Sent: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:09:16 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: [NIFL-LD:4927] Re: LD and intensive phonics > > John, > > Sorry I couldn't respond earlier- I have been out of > town the past > week. Kenneth Pugh at Yale Univ. has also done some > recent brain > research using MRIs and looking at what happens in > the brain when > someone is reading. There is a short write-up here > on his research > area: > http://www.haskins.yale.edu/Haskins/STAFF/pugh.html\ > > I don't know if more has been published yet. > > Aaron > > At 11:04 AM 9/30/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hello Aaron, > > > >Thank you for the references. I had a good read of > the article on > >Neurobiology, and it is very informative and well > written. > > > >However I have some problems with it. From what I > have seen, none of > the > >research on dyslexia has taken into account a key > environmental factor > - how > >the subjects had been taught to read. Moreover none > of the > researchers, to > >my knowledge, have looked at children who have been > given intensive > phonics > >training at the start of primary school, by either > explicit phonics or > >synthetic phonics. Perhaps the patterns of brain > activation would be > >different, if the subjects had been taught in a > different way. In the > >Clackmannanshire study, all the children were > taught to read > successfully > >using synthetic phonics, and there was little or no > "dyslexia" > apparent. > >And I have heard of reseach suggesting that the > left brain can indeed > by > >"activated" to help people overcome reading > problems. > > > >Therefore, I am suspicious when the article says > that "dyslexia is a > >persistent and chronic condition". It seems there > might be effective > >remediation that could activate the parts of the > brain that are used > by > >normal readers. A key giveaway in the article is as > follows: > > > >[quote] > > The awareness that all words can be decomposed > into these basic > elements of > >language (phonemes) allows the reader to decipher > the reading code. In > order > >to read, a child has to develop the insight that > spoken words can be > pulled > >apart into phonemes and that the letters in a > written word represent > these > >sounds. This so-called phonemic awareness is > largely missing in > dyslexic > >children and adults. Results from large and > well-studied populations > with > >reading disability confirm that in young > school-aged children, as well > as in > >adolescents, a deficit in phonology represents the > most robust and > specific > >correlate of reading disability. > >[end quote] > > > >The explicit phonics and synthetic phonics are > designed to give this > >phonemic awareness from the start. The other skill > these methods > impart is > >"blending" - the ability to put the phonemes > together to form (spoken) > >words. This skill is not mentioned in the article > but is a key skill > for > >reading. > > > >There is a great danger of looking at the brain of > a dyslexic person, > and > >saying the brain has been "disrupted" or > "impaired", when in fact it > may be > >just the way the person was taught. Is there any > evidence to the > contrary? > > > >What I'd like to see is brain scans of the > Clackmannanshire pupils > reading, > >to see which parts of the brain they are using, > especially for those > pupils > >with dyslexic genes. > > > >Cheers from Chiswick, > > > >John > > > >P.S. Ian, I'm copying this to you, because I read > you'd done some fMRI > with > >researchers at Bristol. > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Aaron Kohring" <akohring@utk.edu> > >To: "Multiple recipients of list" > <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> > >Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:00 PM > >Subject: [NIFL-LD:4893] Re: LD and intensive > phonics > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > Yes, there is research into some of these areas > you mention. > > > > > > I'd recommend taking a look at the Focus on > Basics article: The > > > Neurobiology of Reading and Dyslexia: > http://www.ncsall.net/?id=278\ > > > > > > Also, look at the resources under the section on > Teaching/Learning > related > > > to instruction: > http://ldlink.coe.utk.edu/research.htm\ > > > > > > Other good instructional guides are found here: > > > http://ldlink.coe.utk.edu/ld_instruction.htm\ > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > At 11:26 AM 9/29/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > >>Hello everybody, > > >> > > >>It seems I was too late for Christopher, and a > bit off topic, since > my > > >>questions were not related to technology. But > I'd be interested to > have > > >>answers to these questions. > > >> > > >>Concerning the first question I asked, what kind > of particular > problems do > > >>people with LD have with reading. Is there > anything different from > the > > >>"specific" learning difficulty, which is > dyslexia (or at least > embraces > > >>dyslexia)? Is the difficulty in phonological > awareness, or in > blending > > >>skills, or in spelling/decoding rules, or in > comprehension, or a > mixture > > >>of > > >>all these? If it is a mix, is there a > characteristic mix? Has any > > >>research > > >>been done on this? > > >> > > >>On the second question, I have heard of people > with LD being taught > to > > >>recognise whole words by associating them with > symbols. This seems > to be > > >>a > > >>denial of the fact that letters represent > sounds, and they should > be > > >>taught > > >>how to decode words, by sounding out the letters > and blending those > sounds > > >>together. But one person I asked said that > "phonics was not > suitable for > > >>children with LD". I cannot believe this. Is > there research > evidence on > > >>whether intensive phonics teaching is effective > or not for people > with LD, > > >>regardless of age? > > >> > > >>The third question is about cause and effect. If > poor readers are > > >>utilising > > >>their right brain when they should be using > their left brain, they > could > > >>end > > >>up with underdeveloped left brains, i.e. not as > relatively large > (compared > > >>to right brain) as normal. That would be an > _effect_ of lack of > use. > > >>Alternatively a left brain problem (e.g. damage) > could be the > _cause_ of > > >>their poor reading, from a young age, and they > would grow up with a > > >>relatively small left brain. So is it cause or > effect? What does > the > > >>research say? And is there anything that can be > done for the older > child > > >>or > > >>adult person to help in left brain development? > > >> > > >>---------- > > >> > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: "John Nissen" <jn@cloudworld.co.uk> > > >>To: "Multiple recipients of list" > <nifl-ld@literacy.nifl.gov> > > >>Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:26 PM > > >>Subject: [NIFL-LD:4872] LD and intensive > phonics > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Hello Christopher, > > >> > > > >> > I am sorry I coming into this session rather > late. I hope I am > not too > > >> > late > > >> > to join in with some questions. > > >> > > > >> > 1. Do people with LD have different teaching > requirements? > > >> > > > >> > I am trying to find out whether there is any > difference in the > teaching > > >> > requirements for teaching people with LD to > read, and teaching > people > > >> > with > > >> > dyslexia to read. I haven't found any factor > to distinguish > them, as > > >> > regards their reading (dis)ability. > > >> > > > >> > 2. Is poor reading due to poor teaching? > > >> > > > >> > Also I want to find out to what extent the > poor reading, or > > >> > non-reading, > > >> > is > > >> > due to misguided teaching. I often see that > there are attempts > to > > >> > teach > > >> > whole word recognition rather than word > decoding, especially for > people > > >> > with > > >> > LD, who may be considered incapable of the > necessary > phonological > > >> > awareness. > > >> > In the Clackmannanshire study, it was shown > that a 'phonics > first and > > >> > fast' > > >> > approach worked marvels for all the children, > and by the end of > primary > > >> > school they were three years ahead in reading > age compared to > their > > >> > peers > > >> > taught by the 'conventional' teaching of a > mixture of methods > > >> > (including > > >> > an > > >> > element of phonics, together with guessing > strategies, etc.). I > > >> > suspect > > >> > that anybody who has learnt to speak is also > capable of the > > >> > phonological > > >> > awareness required for reading and writing, > given appropriate > teaching. > > >> > > > >> > 3. Left brain development for rapid decoding > > >> > > > >> > Finally I wonder whether the right brain > development in some > poor > > >> > readers > > >> > is > > >> > because they have developed skills for whole > word recognition, > and with > > >> > the > > >> > right teaching, their left brain would be > developed to enable > rapid > > >> > decoding, even in older children. > > >> > > >>BTW, I've written about the teaching of a brand > of intensive > phonics > > >>called > > >>"synthetic phonics" here: > > > >>http://www.cloudworld.co.uk/teaching-synthetic-phonics.htm\ > > >>and I'd be grateful for comments. > > >> > > >>Cheers from Chiswick, > > >> > > >>John > > >> > > >>John Nissen, > > >>director Cloudworld Ltd > > >>maker of the WordAloud assistive reader > > >>http://www.cloudworld.co.uk\ > > > > > > Aaron Kohring > > > Coordinator, LINCS Literacy & Learning > Disabilities Special > Collection > > > > > > Center for Literacy Studies, University of > Tennessee > > > EFF Center for Training and Technical > Assistance > > > Phone:(865) 974-4109 main > > > (865) 974-4258 direct > > > Fax: (865) 974-3857 > > > e-mail: akohring@utk.edu > > > > > > > > Aaron Kohring > Coordinator, LINCS Literacy & Learning Disabilities > Special Collection > > Center for Literacy Studies, University of > Tennessee > EFF Center for Training and Technical Assistance > Phone:(865) 974-4109 main > (865) 974-4258 direct > Fax: (865) 974-3857 > e-mail: akohring@utk.edu > > > > > > > > > Convert text to truespel USA accent by copy/pasting text at: http://www.foreignword.com/dictionary/truespel/transpel.htm For truespel discussion and phoneme frequency files go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/truespel/ or truespel.com Read “Truespel Book One: Analysis of the Sounds (Phonemes) of USA English (Authorhouse.com) __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Mon Oct 31 2005 - 09:49:55 EST