Return-Path: <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id e95Mqe902323; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <LAW2-F307MMageJxUUc00004afc@hotmail.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Eileen Eckert" <eileeneckert@hotmail.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-POVRACELIT:154] Re: Defining Our Own Racism--Individual X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Status: O Content-Length: 12415 Lines: 291 Catherine: For clarification, you are attributing to me words and ideas that were written by others on the list. I added my comments with asterisks before and after and left the original messages as reference. My point is that whatever the differences in their histories in Europe, once European immigrants have assimilated, they have access to the same privileges of other white Americans. All white Americans have the opportunity to assimilate into and therefore benefit from the racist power structure set up to justify and perpetuate slavery. Racism is the initial violence. Prejudices against whites are a response to racism. Both need to be overcome, through individual and collective reflection and action, but they are not the same, and only racism has the institutional power to systematically oppress people of color. Eileen >From: "Catherine King" <cbking@flash.net> >Reply-To: nifl-povracelit@nifl.gov >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> >Subject: [NIFL-POVRACELIT:149] Re: Defining Our Own Racism--Individual >Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:59:11 -0400 (EDT) > >To Ms. Eckert, who writes: > >"One last point, you say that 'When White Americans >begin to identify others as racist they deflect attention >away from their history as a people.' Since when do all >white Americans share a common history anymore than >white Brits or white Europeans? Do my Polish American >cousins in Chicago share the same histories as the Irish >Americans, the German Americans, and the Italian >Americans also living in Chicago? Most white people did >not have ancestors who benefited from the trade in slaves >any more than most black people did, although we know >that both white and black individuals were involved in the >slave trade, so why should you again pick on white >Americans only?" > >Though there is much truth in what you say above and in >the rest of your thoughtful note, **all** white Americans, including >your Polish **American** cousins living in Chicago, do share >the same general history and "story of our beginnings, as >"the story of the United States," unless they are not Americans? > >Furthermore, black Americans share that same story--with >the radically different twist of coming to a "free" country with >an "of the people, etc." Constitution while arguments were going >on (as a matter of public record) that they weren't even fully human. >(It was called the "serpent under the table at the signing of the >Constitution.) The further twist is that the "state's rights" >advocates in the south were advocating for state's rights mainly >to keep a way of life that included slavery--a rather odd notion >of "rights," when you think about it, and fought a war over it. > >Though "group bias" is always a possibility in any culture and >is what is behind being able to kill children of another culture >with apparent ease, racism by white people in America against >black people--by mere virtue of their skin color and national heritage-- >has had its particular historical developments that will not go >away. Ignoring it, or blaming others for their own racism is >only using one half-truth to avoid another. > >This conversation relates directly to adult education because, >though we have in K-12 tried our best to obfuscate the arts, >literature and history in favor of science and math, the original >impetus for educating our young people was the assumption >that it takes a generally educated polity to maintain democracy >and order under general laws in a diverse land. An education >towards civility is not a far cry from that goal, and the arts, literature, >and history are where we are placed in a dialogue with the "other." > >That civil education comes from having to sit in a classroom and >dialogue, and explore differences and samenesses with person of >other groups. Without that education towards understanding others, >we have a tendency to drift towards a mentality of tribalism-- >a "mine or none" closed-minded, self-serving, blame everyone-but >me-attitude, or worse yet, even make assumptions that "because >someone is .........then, they must be ......... Either way, and even if >our assumptions may be true on occasion, this kind of thinking >still closes down the questioning process that would allow us into >an area of understanding individual others. > >Unfortunately, those who come for an education are often the ones >who are the victims of those who do not have one and are of the >mind set that they don't need one, including math and science >majors--This I have experienced again and again. > >Best to all, >Catherine King > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Eileen Eckert <eileeneckert@hotmail.com> >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> >Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 11:21 AM >Subject: [NIFL-POVRACELIT:148] Re: Defining Our Own Racism--Individual > > > > I couldn't resist adding my two cents to the discussion. I've marked my > > comments with ** before and after. How can we bring these discussions >into > > the literacy classroom or tutoring session? > > > > >Karen, I agree with you. As an African American, my intent is not >allow > > >the dominant culture to obscure my vision. Consider the situation >where >a > > >husband is verbally abusive to his wife and this issue is brought >before > > >the marriage counselor by the wife. During an exchange between the >husband > > >and the wife, the husband attempts to deflect attention off of himself >by > > >pointing out at every opportunity anything that he can construe as >verbally > > >abusive by his wife. When White Americans begin to identify others as > > >racist they deflect attention away from their history as a people. > > >African Americans accuse other people of being racist and deny that >they > > >are equally so the same reasoning applies? > > > > **Anyone who deflects attention from his or her own attitudes and >behavior > > by accusing someone else of engaging in the same behavior is resisting > > self-awareness. Rejecting the opportunity to examine and transform your >own > > behavior and instead accusing others is not conducive to change and does > > nothing to overcome animosity. But the original situation remains: >African > > Americans are not in a position to institutionalize their prejudices >against > > white people. Animosity of an African American toward whites based on >race > > is a learned response to racism.** > > > > You argue that a man who is abusive will look for opportunities to show >that > > his partner is equally abusive. In doing this he will absolve himself >from > > any guilt or remorse over his own behaviour and will place the blame on >her > > - so he no longer appears to be the antagonist but the victim defending > > himself against an aggressive wife. Right? Very clever! > > > > Let us take this illustration one step further. Would you suggest that >an > > African American who is racist would similarly look for opportunities to > > prove that non African Americans are racist in order to justify his/her >own > > antagonism towards white people? In fact might such a person not argue >that > > it is impossible for an African American to be racist? In denying one's >own > > ability to be racist one automatically absolves oneself of any blame or > > guilt for racist thoughts or deeds - you cannot be guilty of something >you > > are incapable of doing. By deflecting attention from oneself, > > by pointing out at every opportunity that white people are racist, is >it > > possible (following the reasoning above) to argue that African American > > 'husbands' are merely shifting blame because they want to ignore their >own > > histories? > > > > **It is possible for an African American to look for instances of racism >to > > support his or her contention that whites are all racist. In doing so, >he >or > > she might be denying personal prejudice. But again, there is a >difference > > between personal history/individual attitude and societal > > history/institutional racism.** > > > > It seems to me that to focus so much on other people's abuse of power is >to > > ignore that there may be other explanations. This isn't to deny that >racism > > exists and that many white people are racist, but to argue that only >white > > people can be racist ignores the fact that black people around the world >are > > also in positions of power and some do use that power in ways which > > prejudice other groups who may be white or may be black. This is not to >say > > that 'two wrongs makes a right' but we have only to look at the >expulsions > > of white Africans in Zimbabwe in recent months from the farms > > their families have tended for perhaps a hundred years or more to see >this > > occurring. > > > > **How did that land come to belong to the white people? Who tended that >land > > before colonization? Your statement, without context, vastly >oversimplifies > > the situation.** > > > > One last point, you say that "When White Americans begin to identify >others > > as racist they deflect attention away from their history as a people." > > Since when do all white Americans share a common history anymore than >white > > Brits or white Europeans? Do my Polish American cousins in Chicago share >the > > same histories as the Irish Americans, the German Americans, and the >Italian > > Americans also living in Chicago? Most white people did not have >ancestors > > who benefited from the trade in slaves any more than most black people >did, > > although we know that both white and black individuals > > were involved in the slave trade, so why should you again pick on white > > Americans only? > > > > **Most white people's ancestors did not trade in slaves. However, most >white > > people's ancestors, and most white people in the U.S. today, benefit >from > > the unequal power structure of the racist system that was set up to >justify > > and support slavery. My Irish, Ukrainian, German, and Belgian ancestors >did > > not share a common history in Europe or in their experience of America, >but > > once they were here, they could assimilate as "Americans" with no ethnic > > qualifiers within a few generations and by doing so gain access to the > > privileges of other white Americans. That option has been much less > > available to people of color.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: RMALCUS@aol.com > > >Reply-To: nifl-povracelit@nifl.gov > > >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> > > >Subject: [NIFL-POVRACELIT:147] Re: Defining Our Own Racism--Individual > > >Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:01:33 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > >Sue, you know I have been feeling like I was in a class where the >topics > > >are so interesting that I find myself thinking about them all the time. >I > > >went to be last night trying to figure out how to better articulate to > > >White Americans (or Brits) what I understand as racism in contrast to > > >racial prejudice. > > > > > >I find it necessary to make sure that I do not get hemmed into a corner > > >when discussing issues of race with the dominant culture that I do not > > >begin to concur > > >everyone can be a racist. There is an historical perspective and >perhaps >a > > >cultural perspective that come in to play when discussing racism. Who >did > > >the enslaving? Who has benefitted from the cultural imperialism that > > >perpetuated the marginalization of certain groups? Racism has played >an > > >important part in maintaining the culture of the White Ameripean >(Colin, > > >199?) as the dominant culture. Now there is racial prejudice. Clovis > > >Semmes (1988?) talks about the efforts taken by African >American-regardless > > >of the course--to right the wrongs they have experienced as a result of > > >cultural hegemony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
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