Return-Path: <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f0J95X907401; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:05:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:05:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <000201c081f7$cfb00b20$52a31c3f@cbking> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Catherine King" <cb.king@verizon.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-POVRACELIT:364] RE: education and democracy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 5869 Lines: 133 Eileen is right that we are always reinventing ourselves as a democracy--demos meaning of the people, and "people" has changed over time. However, the point of reference for the democracy in the Unites States is not the specific past historical situation circa when we emerged as a states-to-nation entity, and when landed white men generally constituted the franchised. The point of reference is the generalized, even transcendent, words of the Constitution and its Amendments that existed then and now, and which through that generalization and transcendence allows us to insert conscious thought and growth--as when we reinterpret "people" and "men"--or even degeneration, between those words and the myriad, specific, and unrepeatable details of concrete history. The Constitution has always, since its inception, been something all of us--then and now--have sought to live up to, to reinterpret creatively in terms of an evernew history of understanding. But the question that should not be lost in this discussion is the relationship between education and that democracy. The question, "Democracy for whom" is indeed an important question--it brings the question we are all living in into reflective focus. However, though it is true that "who had voice," or "who was franchised," was far less comprehensive than it is now, I maintain that the relationship of education to democracy ***among those franchised*** (1) was understood in a way that saw education as wedded to political awareness, and both as essential to the continuation of the democratic process, and (2) is indeed almost lost, or "under attack", now in much of our dialogue in adult education, e.g., education as work training at the service of the corporate sector, and equating education with some sort of reluctant social giveaway, like welfare of some sort. If "Who is really franchised?" is rightly coming under question, then what of the importance of educating-for- political-awareness those whose right it is to be a part of those "people of-for-and-by" whom we are creating a "more perfect union"? How might the more comprehensive We maintain the movement towards intelligent, creative, and civilized development in a changing and global world from the position of a trained but politically ignorant, and even semi-literate polity? Continuing education for all adults in a democracy is more about keeping the commonwealth healthy than it is about keeping poor people off welfare or keeping corporations happy with trained workers, though I would not argue that these are non-issues. So we cannot ask "Democracy for whom?" without pairing it with the question, "Education for whom?" As an aside, since listening to Bush about education, I have wondered if he understands the difference between being a president of a corporation or being a presient of a commonwealth? Best to all, Catherine King ---- Original Message ----- From: Jones, Karen <jonesk@sosmail.state.mo.us> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 3:30 PM Subject: [NIFL-POVRACELIT:363] RE: education and democracy > > I find the idea Eileen expresses - that we are struggling to create > something that has never actually been achieved rather then defending > something that we once had but is now under attack - most provocative. I > don't know whether we are gaining or losing ground in striving toward > democracy, but perhaps another role of education is to give people the tools > and information and power they need to move all of us toward democracy if > they so choose. I guess the frightening possibility of that is that they > also gain tools and power to move us away from it if they so choose. Keeping > people less educated than they are has long been a tactic of oppressors... > > Karen Jones > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eileen Eckert [mailto:eileeneckert@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 2:32 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-POVRACELIT:362] education and democracy > > > I've been thinking about the exchange between Catherine and Laura about > democracy and education. Laura's question, "democracy for whom?" is a > crucial one. Catherine's statements about the corrosion of democracy, or > democracy under attack, seem to imply that at some point there was a higher > level of democracy in the U.S. than there is today. I've been trying to > figure out what bothers me about those statements. > > >From the beginning of the U.S. as a nation, it has been called a democracy, > > a government of, by, and for the people. But when the Constitution was > written, "the people" meant white anglo-saxon protestant males who owned > property. The definition excluded all people of color, slave or "free." It > excluded all women, Catholics, men without property, Jews, etc. Yet it was > called democracy. It seems to me that it was a highly structured, formalized > > oligarchy by another name and that every civil rights movement since has > been an attempt to expand the oligarchy into democracy. > > Does it make a difference whether we define our socio-economic-political > system as "in creation" or "under attack"? I think it does. To be in the > process of creating a democracy gives us the freedom to envision the best > that we can build, whereas to be defending a democracy under attack requires > > that we pinpoint a past moment in which the democracy we defend existed. How > > we frame the question, for ourselves and with our students, sets the > perameters for the options we see available to us. I do not think we know > yet what democracy can be and I think that one purpose of education is to > learn how to create democracy. > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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