Return-Path: <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id j8SDKKG01361; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <20050928131914.60255.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: Ujwala Samant <lalumineuse@yahoo.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-povracelit@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-POVRACELIT:1562] Re: race and literacy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Status: O Content-Length: 9017 Lines: 262 Andres, I think there are different points being made here: 1. Intergenerational poverty: I agree that it does have a negative impact on schooling. But that has more to do with the fact that children have to work, look after siblings (some of the programmes in Afghanistan, India and Pakistan that I work with have come up with creative solutions to just this issue), have to support the family. This also automatically means these children do not have the support they need (as first time school goers) to succeed. They have access to fewer role models, and no access to the support structures that children whose families are not at the lower SES, do. Now, what support structures are in place for children who come from lower SES? That to me is an issue worth looking into, if we are to break this cycle of intergenerational poverty and illiteracy. 2. The higher the SES does not automatically mean better grades or better performance. In the case of both parents working, it becomes harder to remain involved in a qualitative way in children's education, or to seriously engage with them. Watching the telly, playing video games, computers, online chats, all have replaced team games in the neighbourhood, street hockey, cycling, etc. 3. The meaning and value of education: With the higher SES, everywhere in the world, education is the entry card to an elite club. 'Knowledge' or 'knowing' is not valued as much as having attended the equivalent of Ivy League or getting a diploma. One of the reasons I was put off a career in academia was the persistent whinge of students who wanted better grades for turning in substandard work. I hear this a lot from a number of my colleagues who are professors in the UK, the US, etc. I refer to what we give people as Formal Schooling, not education. This may seem like semantic hair-splitting, but education to me includes knowledge, curiosity, a relevance to life. What are we looking for when we say "achievement"? Cheers Ujwala --- Andres Muro <andresm@epcc.edu> wrote: > Ryan: > > Educational achievement of the parent and economic > status are two huge > predictors of educational achievement of the child. > Children from poor > families are at a significant disadvantage in terms > of educational > achievement. The disadvantage increases when there > is generational > poverty. In other words, children from families that > have lived in > poverty in the US for many generations will perform > worse than those of > poor recent immigrants or people who are > temporarilly in poverty. > > Of course there are examples of rich kids who didn't > learn in schools > and of poor kids who succeeded. However, these > examples are not > statistically significant. > > Andres > > >>> ryanryanc@yahoo.com 09/28/05 05:32 AM >>> > Viewing the socioeconomic status and/or the income > level of our students' families as a dependable > predictor of academic success in our students is one > stereotype we should avoid making as educators. Over > the past ten years, I have had the opportunity to be > acquainted with families whose income levels range > from below the poverty line to well into the upper > class. From my experience, there have been just as > many students from wealthy, prominent families who > were not encouraged to do well in school as there > have > been from poorer families. Even more surprising to > me > are the parents who spend $10k or more a year on > private schooling for each of their children, but do > not instill the value of that education in their > children. Instead, many of these parents allow their > children to spend countless hours watching > television, > playing video games, chatting online, and talking on > the phone- activities that many people (including > right-winged conservatives who will not acknowledge > their privileged upbringing) argue is the bane of > the > lower classes. My comments are not to make light of > the high percentage of students in urban areas who > have difficulty in school; rather, they are meant to > make the point that one's socioeconomic status is > not > a dependable predictor of one's attitudes about > education as such attitudes lie on a continuum for > all > people, no matter which socioeconomic class one > belongs. Like Danielle, I, too, came from a > low-income > family, and had parents who had very little > education. > My siblings and I spent most of our childhood alone > at > home because our mother, who was a single parent for > the majority of my life, had to work over 80 hours a > week to pay the bills. Being left at home alone > meant > we were free to go and do as we pleased, even as > young > as the 2nd grade. However, in order to prevent us > from > getting caught up in the gangs, cliques, and other > negative social groups that lived along side of us > in > the mobile home park, my mother kept us busy with > books and other educational projects we had to > complete and then discuss with her when she returned > home. Her consistent emphasis on educational > activities, coupled with her not allowing us to > spend > our time watching television and playing video > games, > allowed us to understand the importance of education > and, more importantly, not get caught up in the > gangs > that ran our neighborhood. Like other families with > different levels of income and/or attitudes about > education, not all of my siblings attended college. > As > a matter of fact, I am the only one in my entire > family who has had any college experience. What > makes > my point even more valid is that the majority of my > family is at least middle-class, not living below > the > poverty line as we were. What I argue to be more of > a > threat to lower class students than their parents' > lack of education is the threat of the violence that > often surrounds their lives. Looking at this one > issue > through the lens of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, one > can understand how, if safety and stability needs > have > to be met before other needs, these students in > urban > areas are cheated out of an education in part > because > of their lack of feeling safe. Mending this problem > will facilitate the process of educating urban > students as they will be able to focus on their > education, instead of fighting to stay alive. It is > a > very complex issue that can not be mended by simply > saying that one's socioeconomic status and/or income > predict which students will and will not succeed in > school. I believe that the educational attitudes for > most parents at all income levels need to be > remediated so that education is considered to be an > important, relevant aspect of life, not an > obligatory > P-12 commitment. > > Ryan Hall > > > --- Ujwala Samant <lalumineuse@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Dear Danielle, > > > > Thank you for saying what you did. I think > literacy > > has always been valued by all socioeconomic > groups, > > across the world. I think if we as educators > > continue > > to perpetuate this myth, we are doing those we > serve > > a > > disservice. In fact in my recent experiences in > > helping set up educational programmes, th > ealmighty > > diploma has devalued artisanal skills. There is > > truth > > in the fact that children who come from homes > where > > parents/families are not literate/educated, are > > likely > > to have less help with their schooling; as will > > those > > from poorer backgrounds. > > > > Accessing education and finding "relevant" > > education, > > now those are issues that I feel are not always > > addressed. > > > > Regards, > > Ujwala Samant > > > > --- Danielle S Shareef <dshareef1@student.gsu.edu> > > wrote: > > > > > There is some truth to this, but don't make the > > > assumption that just because a student comes > from > > a > > > low-income household and urban area, that > > > literacy/education isn't valued in the home. > > (Those > > > same implications exist in rural areas as well). > > > I > > > was born to a 20 year old mother who had to drop > > out > > > of college to take care of me and herself. My > > > father didn't complete his B.A degree until he > was > > > well in his thirties. We were a low-income, > > > sometimes single parent household, yet my 2 > > siblings > > > and I are college graduates, with 2 of us having > > > graduate degrees; of those 2, one of us is > > pursuing > > > doctoral studies. > > > > > > My mother came from a household in which her > > mother > > > only had a sixth-grade education, and none of > my > > > mother's seven siblings are college-educated, > > though > > > many are successful & property owners. Still, > > their > > > mother valued education and literacy. I think > for > > > some of my relatives and maybe other people in > > > general, there has to be a desire to improve > > > yourself, even if it means temporarily working > === message truncated === __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
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