Return-Path: <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id eAAJUu921927; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:30:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:30:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <004901c04b4c$870f52e0$45b01918@maine.rr.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Peter S. Hayes" <phayes02@maine.rr.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1415] Re: Digital Divide - A Skills or Acces X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 10368 Lines: 267 I am guilty of a bit of hyperbole! I'll agree that the free ISPs aren't necessarily targeting the poorer users. However, they are the ones who are more limited to the free ISPs, complete with all of the imposed conditions (cookies, better tracking, streaming advertisements and crawling information...). With absolutely no proof (just anecdotal observation) I wonder if these people aren't even more susceptible to the tactics (of sales, marketing, targeting). Also, most merchants who accept your credit card information commit to making your information available only for certain relatively explicit purposes. When that information is given in exchange for "free" access, are the same types of agreements tendered? The few I've read have scared me away! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Gopalakrishnan" <agopalak@crec.org> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:33 AM Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1413] Re: Digital Divide - A Skills or Acces > Peter, > > I concur with most of the points you raised, especially that having a > computer at home is a lot different from occasionally going to the library > or school and using it. I think it is an issue of transfer... or may be > internalization of learning. This makes an argument that the access-divide > and the skills-divide are somewhat related and not totally independent of > each other; bridging the former, goes toward bridging the latter. > > I think I differ from some of your views with regard to free internet > access. > > I agree that free access is anything but free. I also agree that, though the > time limits you mention (i.e. clicking on the advertisements) seem to have > all but disappeared from the Free ISPs, they still pump advertising through > their channels. In my personal experience with free access with both > Altavista and Bluelight, the advertisement downloads seem to take precedence > over any other download the user might have requested. > > As regards privacy, I don't know enough to say whether using free ISPs > present any greater privacy concern than simply surfing the net or filling > out an online survey or perhaps buying something online with a credit card. > > I also don't believe as you mention that the privacy lost when using Free > ISPs is a price paid only by the poor and not by the well-off. I don't know > of statistics that support that point i.e. who are the users of Free ISPs. I > will say however that, in my opinion, the Free ISPs are really not targeting > the poor but others with more purchasing power. > > This is somewhat supported by the fact that the Free ISPs require the latest > versions of browsers and operating systems which typically require newer > machines that cost $800 or more. These Free ISPs will not run, for example, > on 486s or used, refurbished older Pentiums with low RAM, which Dinesh > D'Souza rightly points out are available for the cost of say a 20" > television. Those older machines crash often or are dismally slow when > loaded with Win 95/98; I believe they are functional and useable when loaded > with simpler operating systems like New Deal. > > Ajit > > Ajit Gopalakrishnan > Capitol Region Education Council > 111 Charter Oak Avenue > Hartford, CT 06106 > Phone: (860) 524-4036 > Fax: (860) 246-3304 > Email: agopalak@crec.org > Web Site: http://www.crec.org/atdn/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter S. Hayes [SMTP:phayes02@maine.rr.com] > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 8:23 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1412] Re: Digital Divide - A Skills or > > Access Divide? > > > > I think he has absolutely no idea what a dollar means to someone on a low > > income budget. The $800.00 computer is just as unobtainable as the > > $2500.00 > > one to many people, and having access in the home as part of everyday life > > is drastically different from access in the library or school, as a > > resource > > which must be actively sought. > > > > The "free" access is anything but. With the advertisements pumped through > > the access lines, the limitations involved (click on one of the sponsors > > every N minutes or lose your connection, for example), and the loss of > > privacy required of these connections, I would not wish to be the user. > > However, it is a price paid by the poor, not the well-off. > > > > Skills are only part of the problem. I think that many young people are > > relatively well-versed in "using" the internet. However, they don't often > > use it to best advantage. I have "kids" and end up being the hangout for a > > number of young teens from the local schools because of a relatively good > > internet connection and home network. However, few of them realize the > > benefit of having the internet available for information; they know of its > > use for "school stuff" (uninteresting and of no use) and for games > > (interesting but not terribly useful). I think a change in attitudes is > > needed here, and it is definitely a "class" oriented change, not one of > > the > > educational system alone. > > > > I think much of the same can be said of their parents. Those I meet often > > (we live in a relatively affluent suburb of Portland, Maine) have internet > > access at home. But they often don't think to use it for information > > access > > either. They occasionally shop the internet, are becoming familiar with > > email, and know all about the porn sites, but don't necessarily think of > > it > > as a source of good information. Here, skills may be partially lacking (a > > place where adult ed can do some good) but a change in attitude (why it's > > important to know some things, to stay abreast of what's happening, to > > read...) is even more important. I think it's the same societal problem > > we've always had. Some people are taught to think in our society while > > others are mostly taught to think they think... > > > > I didn't react well to the report, needless to say! > > > > > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ajit Gopalakrishnan" <agopalak@crec.org> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 5:00 PM > > Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1408] Digital Divide - A Skills or Access > > Divide? > > > > > > > Yesterday on NPR's All Things Considered, conservative thinker Dinesh > > > D'Souza gave a 3 minute commentary on the Digital Divide. You can listen > > to > > > his commentary (Real Audio File) at > > > http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20001107.atc.13.rmm > > > > > > In his commentary, he argues that the Digital Divide is really a skills > > > divide and not one of access. He mentions that five years ago when > > computers > > > cost $2500, he could understand that many could not afford it. However, > > > today with computer costs coming down and used computers costing as much > > as > > > a television, and with cheap to free Internet access, he says that the > > issue > > > is not one of access but of skills/knowledge. He mentions that getting > > > Internet access today is liken to getting telephone access or television > > > access. He also makes the point that internet access is available at > > public > > > schools and libraries and that someone who wants Internet access can get > > it. > > > > > > As a means of solving this problem, he goes on to argue that we must > > teach > > > the young people of today not only how to use the technology but also > > its > > > value in the new world. > > > > > > Did any of you hear this commentary? If so what did you think? > > > > > > My Views: > > > He portrays the digital divide ONLY as a skills divide. I disagree with > > that > > > view. To me that is exemplified by the struggle adult education programs > > > have to go through to gain Internet access in their programs. Many > > times, > > > they are barred from accessing the computer labs with Internet access > > that > > > are housed in the very same public school building that they are housed > > in, > > > and are used with the "young people" that Dinesh D'Souza talks about. In > > > Connecticut (as is probably not uncommon nationwide), programs have had > > to > > > remind, advocate, and lobby with their local public school districts to > > be > > > included in their school-district wide networking initiatives or > > technology > > > purchasing initiatives, from which they are typically excluded. > > > > > > Why do I talk about program access? Because for adult education programs > > to > > > educate people on technology, which I agree with Dinesh D'Souza is the > > way > > > to liberation for many, adult education programs need to have access > > > first..... and that IS an issue today. Hopefully, with initiatives like > > the > > > CTC and our commitment to technology planning, access won't be an issue > > in > > > the near future. > > > > > > Yes, theoretically access should not even be an issue in a country as > > > affluent as this one. For that matter, many other issues like health > > > insurance also should not even be an issue.... but they are... because > > (I > > > believe) of fear, prejudice, and power. > > > > > > Another question is "where" is the access. I don't believe that having > > > access ONLY through the public libraries or schools is sufficient. The > > > technology definitely needs to be part of the home and I am not > > convinced > > > that the technology is as affordable as Dinesh D'Souza makes it out to > > be. > > > > > > Lastly, I would like to say that when stating his problem of how Blacks > > and > > > Hispanics are not accessing the Internet as much as Whites and Asians > > are, > > I > > > am not sure if Dinesh D'Souza is referring to adults or "young people". > > > However, when he proposes the solution of skills education, he only > > makes > > > mention of educating the young people and says nothing about adults. > > > > > > I am also not sure what his views are on who should pay for the > > > education/skill building that he talks about. > > > > > > Ajit > > > > > > Ajit Gopalakrishnan > > > Capitol Region Education Council > > > 111 Charter Oak Avenue > > > Hartford, CT 06106 > > > Phone: (860) 524-4036 > > > Fax: (860) 246-3304 > > > Email: agopalak@crec.org > > > Web Site: http://www.crec.org/atdn/ > > >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Tue Jan 16 2001 - 14:45:41 EST