Return-Path: <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id eAEHt0905629; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:55:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:55:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3536441424.974199050@dhcp-176-0218.unm.edu> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "\\" <sreiers@unm.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1420] Re: Digital Divide - A Skills or Acces X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.4, s/n S-399010] Status: O Content-Length: 10914 Lines: 287 How can one access the free ISPs? --On Friday, November 10, 2000, 2:30 PM -0500 "Peter S. Hayes" <phayes02@maine.rr.com> wrote: > I am guilty of a bit of hyperbole! I'll agree that the free ISPs aren't > necessarily targeting the poorer users. However, they are the ones who are > more limited to the free ISPs, complete with all of the imposed conditions > (cookies, better tracking, streaming advertisements and crawling > information...). > > With absolutely no proof (just anecdotal observation) I wonder if these > people aren't even more susceptible to the tactics (of sales, marketing, > targeting). Also, most merchants who accept your credit card information > commit to making your information available only for certain relatively > explicit purposes. When that information is given in exchange for "free" > access, are the same types of agreements tendered? The few I've read have > scared me away! > > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ajit Gopalakrishnan" <agopalak@crec.org> > To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:33 AM > Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1413] Re: Digital Divide - A Skills or Acces > > >> Peter, >> >> I concur with most of the points you raised, especially that having a >> computer at home is a lot different from occasionally going to the >> library or school and using it. I think it is an issue of transfer... or >> may be internalization of learning. This makes an argument that the >> access-divide and the skills-divide are somewhat related and not totally >> independent of each other; bridging the former, goes toward bridging the >> latter. >> >> I think I differ from some of your views with regard to free internet >> access. >> >> I agree that free access is anything but free. I also agree that, though > the >> time limits you mention (i.e. clicking on the advertisements) seem to >> have all but disappeared from the Free ISPs, they still pump advertising > through >> their channels. In my personal experience with free access with both >> Altavista and Bluelight, the advertisement downloads seem to take > precedence >> over any other download the user might have requested. >> >> As regards privacy, I don't know enough to say whether using free ISPs >> present any greater privacy concern than simply surfing the net or >> filling out an online survey or perhaps buying something online with a >> credit > card. >> >> I also don't believe as you mention that the privacy lost when using Free >> ISPs is a price paid only by the poor and not by the well-off. I don't > know >> of statistics that support that point i.e. who are the users of Free >> ISPs. > I >> will say however that, in my opinion, the Free ISPs are really not > targeting >> the poor but others with more purchasing power. >> >> This is somewhat supported by the fact that the Free ISPs require the > latest >> versions of browsers and operating systems which typically require newer >> machines that cost $800 or more. These Free ISPs will not run, for > example, >> on 486s or used, refurbished older Pentiums with low RAM, which Dinesh >> D'Souza rightly points out are available for the cost of say a 20" >> television. Those older machines crash often or are dismally slow when >> loaded with Win 95/98; I believe they are functional and useable when > loaded >> with simpler operating systems like New Deal. >> >> Ajit >> >> Ajit Gopalakrishnan >> Capitol Region Education Council >> 111 Charter Oak Avenue >> Hartford, CT 06106 >> Phone: (860) 524-4036 >> Fax: (860) 246-3304 >> Email: agopalak@crec.org >> Web Site: http://www.crec.org/atdn/ >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Peter S. Hayes [SMTP:phayes02@maine.rr.com] >> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 8:23 AM >> > To: Multiple recipients of list >> > Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1412] Re: Digital Divide - A Skills or >> > Access Divide? >> > >> > I think he has absolutely no idea what a dollar means to someone on a > low >> > income budget. The $800.00 computer is just as unobtainable as the >> > $2500.00 >> > one to many people, and having access in the home as part of everyday > life >> > is drastically different from access in the library or school, as a >> > resource >> > which must be actively sought. >> > >> > The "free" access is anything but. With the advertisements pumped > through >> > the access lines, the limitations involved (click on one of the >> > sponsors every N minutes or lose your connection, for example), and >> > the loss of privacy required of these connections, I would not wish to >> > be the user. However, it is a price paid by the poor, not the well-off. >> > >> > Skills are only part of the problem. I think that many young people are >> > relatively well-versed in "using" the internet. However, they don't > often >> > use it to best advantage. I have "kids" and end up being the hangout >> > for > a >> > number of young teens from the local schools because of a relatively > good >> > internet connection and home network. However, few of them realize the >> > benefit of having the internet available for information; they know of > its >> > use for "school stuff" (uninteresting and of no use) and for games >> > (interesting but not terribly useful). I think a change in attitudes is >> > needed here, and it is definitely a "class" oriented change, not one of >> > the >> > educational system alone. >> > >> > I think much of the same can be said of their parents. Those I meet > often >> > (we live in a relatively affluent suburb of Portland, Maine) have > internet >> > access at home. But they often don't think to use it for information >> > access >> > either. They occasionally shop the internet, are becoming familiar with >> > email, and know all about the porn sites, but don't necessarily think >> > of it >> > as a source of good information. Here, skills may be partially lacking > (a >> > place where adult ed can do some good) but a change in attitude (why > it's >> > important to know some things, to stay abreast of what's happening, to >> > read...) is even more important. I think it's the same societal problem >> > we've always had. Some people are taught to think in our society while >> > others are mostly taught to think they think... >> > >> > I didn't react well to the report, needless to say! >> > >> > >> > Pete >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Ajit Gopalakrishnan" <agopalak@crec.org> >> > To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> >> > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 5:00 PM >> > Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1408] Digital Divide - A Skills or Access >> > Divide? >> > >> > >> > > Yesterday on NPR's All Things Considered, conservative thinker Dinesh >> > > D'Souza gave a 3 minute commentary on the Digital Divide. You can > listen >> > to >> > > his commentary (Real Audio File) at >> > > http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20001107.atc.13.rmm >> > > >> > > In his commentary, he argues that the Digital Divide is really a > skills >> > > divide and not one of access. He mentions that five years ago when >> > computers >> > > cost $2500, he could understand that many could not afford it. > However, >> > > today with computer costs coming down and used computers costing as > much >> > as >> > > a television, and with cheap to free Internet access, he says that >> > > the >> > issue >> > > is not one of access but of skills/knowledge. He mentions that >> > > getting Internet access today is liken to getting telephone access or > television >> > > access. He also makes the point that internet access is available at >> > public >> > > schools and libraries and that someone who wants Internet access can > get >> > it. >> > > >> > > As a means of solving this problem, he goes on to argue that we must >> > teach >> > > the young people of today not only how to use the technology but also >> > its >> > > value in the new world. >> > > >> > > Did any of you hear this commentary? If so what did you think? >> > > >> > > My Views: >> > > He portrays the digital divide ONLY as a skills divide. I disagree > with >> > that >> > > view. To me that is exemplified by the struggle adult education > programs >> > > have to go through to gain Internet access in their programs. Many >> > times, >> > > they are barred from accessing the computer labs with Internet access >> > that >> > > are housed in the very same public school building that they are > housed >> > in, >> > > and are used with the "young people" that Dinesh D'Souza talks about. > In >> > > Connecticut (as is probably not uncommon nationwide), programs have > had >> > to >> > > remind, advocate, and lobby with their local public school districts > to >> > be >> > > included in their school-district wide networking initiatives or >> > technology >> > > purchasing initiatives, from which they are typically excluded. >> > > >> > > Why do I talk about program access? Because for adult education > programs >> > to >> > > educate people on technology, which I agree with Dinesh D'Souza is >> > > the >> > way >> > > to liberation for many, adult education programs need to have access >> > > first..... and that IS an issue today. Hopefully, with initiatives > like >> > the >> > > CTC and our commitment to technology planning, access won't be an > issue >> > in >> > > the near future. >> > > >> > > Yes, theoretically access should not even be an issue in a country as >> > > affluent as this one. For that matter, many other issues like health >> > > insurance also should not even be an issue.... but they are... >> > > because >> > (I >> > > believe) of fear, prejudice, and power. >> > > >> > > Another question is "where" is the access. I don't believe that >> > > having access ONLY through the public libraries or schools is >> > > sufficient. The technology definitely needs to be part of the home >> > > and I am not >> > convinced >> > > that the technology is as affordable as Dinesh D'Souza makes it out >> > > to >> > be. >> > > >> > > Lastly, I would like to say that when stating his problem of how > Blacks >> > and >> > > Hispanics are not accessing the Internet as much as Whites and Asians >> > are, >> > I >> > > am not sure if Dinesh D'Souza is referring to adults or "young > people". >> > > However, when he proposes the solution of skills education, he only >> > makes >> > > mention of educating the young people and says nothing about adults. >> > > >> > > I am also not sure what his views are on who should pay for the >> > > education/skill building that he talks about. >> > > >> > > Ajit >> > > >> > > Ajit Gopalakrishnan >> > > Capitol Region Education Council >> > > 111 Charter Oak Avenue >> > > Hartford, CT 06106 >> > > Phone: (860) 524-4036 >> > > Fax: (860) 246-3304 >> > > Email: agopalak@crec.org >> > > Web Site: http://www.crec.org/atdn/ >> > > >
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