Return-Path: <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f6PKf9f16144; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <135BF7ADE17CD311BED60090279BBD494E92AC@CWEXCH> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Sladkova, Jana" <JSladkova@CWE.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1941] Re: Opening questions for David Reinki X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Status: O Content-Length: 16865 Lines: 364 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1154B.E3D98B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear David, Though I am a little hesitant to post a very non-academic response, here it is: Your polemic on plagiarism was of great interest to me. I have been in the US for 10 years and have fully adapted the western notion of plagiarism, which is contrary to a view of plagiarism held at schools I went to in the Czech Republic, then Czechoslovakia. The best grades were given to people who could cite, summarize or write as close as possible to the original source of the studied material. I am not justifying either stand, just want to confirm that the idea of plagiarism is very cultural. Your questions about justifying denying people access to information is thought provoking. The digital media as you pointed out can be an overwhelming source of information, but for whom? How much accessible information is there for people who don't read English at a certain level? In our field, we run into this problem often. We want to use the Internet with literacy and ESOL students, but often find it difficult to find materials online that are designed and written in such a way, our students can understand them. Is there a purpose behind the lack of accessible information and materials for the adults we work with? Their "educational disadvantages" often come with economical and other disadvantages. So, though the Internet is supposed to bring people together and provide readily accessible information, I wonder if it is on some level also making the divisions greater. --Jana Sladkova -----Original Message----- From: Steve Linberg [mailto:steve@silicongoblin.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1940] Re: Opening questions for David Reinki On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Hacker, Emily wrote: > The question you posed debating the concept of plagiarism, "When is it > ethically justifiable to deny people access to and dissemination of > potentially useful information?" made me think immediately about the open > source movement. Open source! I want to respond to David's last message separately, but I wanted to throw in an enthusiastic "huzzah" here about open source. It would be impossible for me to provide what I do on literacytent.org without open source - every bit of it is open source - the web server, the databases, the mail servers and list managers, the programming languages I use, even the imaging software. All written by volunteers contributing to the larger cause of making computers useful. I open-source the code I write whenever I can, but it's a trickle compared to the ocean out there, and I'm standing on the shoulders of giants when I do. There's also an "open content" license that I've started using for the technical documents I write (including the HTML how-to material and the site preparation and planning documents, all on docs.literacytent.org), which retains my copyright but gives everybody the right to copy, rework, and use the material I've written freely and without advance permission, as long as they: - credit the original author(s) (me, in this case) - indicate their changes - link to the original material. This is a nice way to ensure that material you want to share stays available to the public, and encourages people to use and re-use the content without fear of getting in trouble or violating copyright. It's a very nice model that I really like. You can read the copyright statement on the footers of my documents at http://docs.literacytent.org to see the actual license and how it works. I wish terribly that the rules of copyright were looser; a professor of mine once told me that 99% of the laws in the United States concern the protection of private property. The intellectual property protection "movement," if there can be said to be one, has really gone wild over the past five to ten years, reacting in panic to the ease with which text can be copied and reproduced digitally. On my old personal website, I had a collection of poetry that I particularly liked. Most of it was 19th century and earlier, safe from current copyright restrictions. My very favorite poet is E. E. Cummings (often incorrectly lowercased, btw), and I had a few of his poems up as well, knowing that they were still within the 70-year time limit for copyrights. I wondered whether I'd get in trouble for having a small sample of his copyrighted work online. Well, I did - two years ago I was contacted by a laywer from his estate and ordered to take them down. I complied, of course, not wanting to go to jail for sharing a handful of poems that were already up all over the internet anyway. I understand they want people to buy the books instead of sharing them freely, but do we really need this level of protection for works done in 1935? Anyway, the big question now is whether the publishing associations can put their fingers in the dike with scary laws and a few public scapegoats, or whether the ease of digital copying will make the laws irrelevant. The music industry is encouraged by their success in crushing Napster, and this is probably emboldening the intellectual property lobby in their efforts to tighten things up even further. >From another perspective, I purchased a digital text last week - a (very good) book on linux security in Acrobat format. I get a print copy of the 850-page book as well, but in my order comment I told them that I didn't actually need the physical book, I was just happy to have the e-text on my PC, and that I would have been happy to pay half the price and just get the file, and save the trees. Now that I have the file, there's nothing stopping me from putting it on my website for everyone to download, but I won't because I respect the author's knowledge and his right to be compensated for his work. There's something about the newness of this work that makes that seem fair to me. But twenty years from now, when the technology it describes is obsolete and the book is really just a curiosity, I don't think it needs the level of protection it currently has, which will prevent any copying, redistribution or derivative works based on its contents until 2071, when we'll all be dead. Surely there's a balance to be struck in the public interest here. The open source movement, and the open content license I referred to above, are ways that authors can voluntarily sidestep the copyright issues now on the public's behalf, if they choose to make their works available. - Steve -- Steve Linberg, Chief Goblin Silicon Goblin Technologies http://silicongoblin.com Be kind. Remember, everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1154B.E3D98B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2650.12"> <TITLE> Re: Opening questions for David Reinki</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dear David,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Though I am a little hesitant to post a very = non-academic response, here it is:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Your polemic on plagiarism was of great interest to = me. I have been in the US for 10 years and have fully adapted the = western notion of plagiarism, which is contrary to a view of plagiarism = held at schools I went to in the Czech Republic, then Czechoslovakia. = The best grades were given to people who could cite, summarize or write = as close as possible to the original source of the studied material. I = am not justifying either stand, just want to confirm that the idea of = plagiarism is very cultural. </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Your questions about justifying denying people access = to information is thought provoking. The digital media as you pointed = out can be an overwhelming source of information, but for whom? How = much accessible information is there for people who don't read English = at a certain level? In our field, we run into this problem often. We = want to use the Internet with literacy and ESOL students, but often = find it difficult to find materials online that are designed and = written in such a way, our students can understand them. Is there a = purpose behind the lack of accessible information and materials for the = adults we work with? Their "educational disadvantages" often = come with economical and other disadvantages. So, though the Internet = is supposed to bring people together and provide readily accessible = information, I wonder if it is on some level also making the divisions = greater. </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--Jana Sladkova</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Steve Linberg [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:steve@silicongoblin.com">mailto:steve@silicongoblin.com</= A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:16 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Multiple recipients of list</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:1940] Re: Opening = questions for David Reinki</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Hacker, Emily wrote:</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> The question you posed debating the concept of = plagiarism, "When is it</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> ethically justifiable to deny people access to = and dissemination of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> potentially useful information?" made me = think immediately about the open</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> source movement.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Open source! </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I want to respond to David's last message separately, = but I wanted to</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>throw in an enthusiastic "huzzah" here = about open source. It would be</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>impossible for me to provide what I do on = literacytent.org without open</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>source - every bit of it is open source - the web = server, the databases,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the mail servers and list managers, the programming = languages I use, even</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the imaging software. All written by = volunteers contributing to the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>larger cause of making computers useful. I = open-source the code I write</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>whenever I can, but it's a trickle compared to the = ocean out there, and</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'm standing on the shoulders of giants when I = do.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There's also an "open content" license that = I've started using for the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>technical documents I write (including the HTML = how-to material and the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>site preparation and planning documents, all on = docs.literacytent.org),</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>which retains my copyright but gives everybody the = right to copy, rework,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and use the material I've written freely and without = advance permission,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>as long as they:</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>- credit the original author(s) (me, in this = case)</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>- indicate their changes</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>- link to the original material.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>This is a nice way to ensure that material you want = to share stays</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>available to the public, and encourages people to = use and re-use the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>content without fear of getting in trouble or = violating copyright. It's a</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>very nice model that I really like. You can = read the copyright statement</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>on the footers of my documents at <A = HREF=3D"http://docs.literacytent.org" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://docs.literacytent.org> to see the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>actual license and how it works.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I wish terribly that the rules of copyright were = looser; a professor of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>mine once told me that 99% of the laws in the United = States concern the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>protection of private property. The = intellectual property protection</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>"movement," if there can be said to be = one, has really gone wild over the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>past five to ten years, reacting in panic to the = ease with which text can</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>be copied and reproduced digitally. </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On my old personal website, I had a collection of = poetry that I</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>particularly liked. Most of it was 19th = century and earlier, safe from</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>current copyright restrictions. My very = favorite poet is E. E. Cummings</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(often incorrectly lowercased, btw), and I had a few = of his poems up as</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>well, knowing that they were still within the = 70-year time limit for</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>copyrights. I wondered whether I'd get in = trouble for having a small</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>sample of his copyrighted work online. Well, I = did - two years ago I was</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>contacted by a laywer from his estate and ordered to = take them down. I</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>complied, of course, not wanting to go to jail for = sharing a handful of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>poems that were already up all over the internet = anyway. I understand</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>they want people to buy the books instead of sharing = them freely, but do</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>we really need this level of protection for works = done in 1935?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Anyway, the big question now is whether the = publishing associations can</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>put their fingers in the dike with scary laws and a = few public</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>scapegoats, or whether the ease of digital copying = will make the laws</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>irrelevant. The music industry is encouraged = by their success in crushing</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Napster, and this is probably emboldening the = intellectual property lobby</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>in their efforts to tighten things up even = further.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>>From another perspective, I purchased a digital = text last week - a (very</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>good) book on linux security in Acrobat = format. I get a print copy of the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>850-page book as well, but in my order comment I = told them that I didn't</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>actually need the physical book, I was just happy to = have the e-text on my</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>PC, and that I would have been happy to pay half the = price and just get</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the file, and save the trees. Now that I have = the file, there's nothing</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>stopping me from putting it on my website for = everyone to download, but I</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>won't because I respect the author's knowledge and = his right to be</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>compensated for his work. There's something = about the newness of this</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>work that makes that seem fair to me. But = twenty years from now, when the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>technology it describes is obsolete and the book is = really just a</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>curiosity, I don't think it needs the level of = protection it currently</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>has, which will prevent any copying, redistribution = or derivative works</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>based on its contents until 2071, when we'll all be = dead.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Surely there's a balance to be struck in the public = interest here. The</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>open source movement, and the open content license I = referred to above,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>are ways that authors can voluntarily sidestep the = copyright issues now on</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the public's behalf, if they choose to make their = works available.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>- Steve</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-- </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Steve Linberg, Chief Goblin </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Silicon Goblin Technologies </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://silicongoblin.com" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://silicongoblin.com> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Be kind. Remember, everyone you meet is = fighting a hard battle. </FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1154B.E3D98B20--
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