Return-Path: <nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id gAQNfOX06506; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:41:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:41:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <37964640587FD31195CA00105A1C4BB7973473@NTSERVER0> Errors-To: alcrsb@langate.gsu.edu Reply-To: nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: SAM MCGRAW III <Samm@seattlegoodwill.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-WOMENLIT:2419] Re: % of lgbt in adult literacy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Type: text/plain; X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Status: O Content-Length: 6522 Lines: 166 Hi all, If I can jump in here: If lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender people are a part of life, and good education includes life skills, (i.e.. being aware of - having knowledge about - living with, all types and kinds) we should have curriculum that includes all parts of life and "people". I don't know that we need to have individuals publicly state their individual status - many of us do not hold public office and yet we are free to discuss many types of communities and governments without having to have individuals declare what party they belong to. In other words, I believe it is very important to include lives, issues, etc, about LGBT individuals even if no one may directly identify with those labels. Samuel McGraw Instructor & Librarian Adult Basic Education Programs Seattle Goodwill 1400 South Lane Street Seattle, Washington 98144-2889 Dl: 206 - 860 - 5789 Tl: 206 - 860 - 5791 Fx: 206 - 325 - 9845 samm@seattlegoodwill.org www.seattlegoodwill.org www.soundwavesseattle.org Operating in partnership with the communities of the North Central Puget Sound, Seattle Goodwill provides quality, effective employment training and basic education to individuals experiencing significant barriers to economic opportunity. Together, we change lives! -----Original Message----- From: Mariann Fedele [mailto:mariannf@lacnyc.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 1:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-WOMENLIT:2398] Re: % of lgbt in adult literacy Rose Marie, Working toward a time when we are "one world" seems to be at the very heart of the work we do in literacy. To achieve that there is a need to acknowledge and address those division which do exist. Data collection on students populations is one means of uncovering where those divisions lie. The current conversation thread seems, at its least, an acknowledgement of one particular division that exists in our society and thus in our classrooms and a look at what recourse there may be to address it. Further, data collection is used to inform the work we do, to focus the allocation of scarce resources, and to set the stage for advocacy efforts. This is why numbers are important. The complications of collecting data on lgbt people stems in part from the very real discrimination and marginalization lgbt people face, and for which little recourse exists. I am not sure, but I would speculate that conducting data collection on religious affiliation is not done because it is considered intrusive, but what I am sure of is everyones constitutional protection to practice their religion. LGBT people face quite a different set of circumstances and students who reveal their lgbt identity could face an array of repercussions which they may have no means to address or correct. This is why so many lgbt people do not reveal their identity or are selective in where they reveal their identity. So, to respond to Daphne's original question "Is it important to know the percentage of lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender people in adult literacy classrooms?" I would say it is important toward meeting the broader social goals that generally we address through adult education (social equity, justice, access, and participation) In terms of classroom practice, even if no student in a classroom identifies as lgbt could a class benefit from exposure to: *materials which address the lives of lgbt people, concerns and issues contexualized through themes of diversity, inclusion and social justice *learning experiences which lead them to think critically about their own assumptions *learning experiences which challenge them to question social constructs and institutionalized discrimination I would tend to think there would be great value in this regardless of the percentages, and particularly since there may be so many all to real obstacles to getting the numbers. Sincerely, Mariann At 01:27 PM 11/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Daphne; What are you folks, the census bureau? I don't think it is at >all important, unless there is some specific reason or goal in mind. If >it is to make folks more comfortable, then why don't we find out how >many Jews, Catholics, Muslims etc are in class to follow that line. Do >you suppose we will ever be one world, doing the best we can and >sometimes minding our own business and not looking for divisions? >Rose Marie > >-----Original Message----- >From: nifl-womenlit@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-womenlit@nifl.gov] On Behalf >Of Daphne Greenberg >Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 9:42 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [NIFL-WOMENLIT:2386] Re: % of lgbt in adult literacy > >Deborah and Sylvan raise an interesting question: >Is it important to know the percentage of lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or >transgender people in adult literacy classrooms? >Any thoughts??????? >Daphne > > >Daphne Greenberg >Associate Director >Center for the Study of Adult Literacy >Georgia State University >University Plaza >Atlanta, GA 30303-3083 >phone: 404-651-0127 >fax:404-651-4901 >dgreenberg@gsu.edu >>>> sylvan@cccchs.org 11/12/02 18:57 PM >>> >At 02:25 PM 11/11/2002 -0500, Deborah Schwartz wrote: >>as I mentioned previously, it's almost impossible to determine >>how many people in any given population identify as gay. There's such >>repercussions to identifying >>as gay in most contexts that the danger factor has to be correlated >>somehow when we collect >>numbers. >> >>This leaves me with a question and two thoughts: >>I wonder has any one ever been involved with a study that in some way >>measures how many >>lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender people are served in a given >>program or class room? > >This would be difficult to determine on many fronts. First, you have to >have some sort of working definition of what it means to be gay. In >addition, the person has to self-identify as gay. The question of >safety/confidentiality has to be addressed. And then, as you go on to >mention, comes the question of why we need to know this. To justify >including lgbt material in the classroom? To better serve our students >by >including material relevant to their lives? > > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Sylvan Rainwater . sylvan@cccchs.org >Clackamas County Children's Commission >Oregon City, OR USA > > > > > Mariann Fedele Coordinator of Instructional Technology Literacy Assistance Center 32 Broadway 10th Floor New York, New York 10004 212-803-3325 mariannf@lacnyc.org www.lacnyc.org
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