Ruth Derfler sent this out to all the GED chief examiners and in view of
the ongoing discussion I thought you might find this useful. We are not
sure if this has taken effect.

Enlistment Option Helps Recruits Earn GEDs 

By Douglas Smith, Army News Service

September 20, 2005 FORT KNOX, Ky. - The U.S. Army is expanding its
eligibility criteria to include those individuals who desire to serve
but do not yet possess the required education credentials. Through the
Education Plus Program enlistment option, the Army will help qualified
non-prior service recruits obtain a GED so they can enlist in the active
Army or Army Reserve. 

To be eligible, individuals must have been withdrawn from high school
for at least six months, meet their state's minimum age requirements for
GED testing and achieve a qualifying score on the Armed Forces
Qualification test. Recruiters will direct eligible recruits to approved
GED programs in their area. Applicants must pass the GED test in order
to complete the enlistment process and report to initial entry training.


The program pays for the cost of basic GED training and the test at an
approved location. Individuals interested in this enlistment option
should visit their local recruiter for details. To learn more about Army
opportunities, contact an Army recruiter.


Carol Bower 
Director, NE SABES

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at dev.nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at dev.nifl.gov] On Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:11 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Assessment] Re: Are Fast Track GED Programs a Good
Investmen t

Hello Varshna and others,

I agree that it is a good idea to look at this from a student
perspective.  Let's identify as many actual purposes that students have
for getting the GED, and then look at how realistic the GED goal is
related to the purpose.  Here's a start, and I hope you and others will
add to this:

Purposes for Getting a GED

Get the GED so I can:

1. Get into the military
In most states the GED is not accepted by most branches of the military
but I understand that in some states this has recently changed, that the
National Guard at least is recruiting students who have a GED -- and
possibly without a GED on the condition that they get one.  If anyone
has information on this, please let us know.

2. Get a GED for the personal pride of having a high school equivalency
diploma or certificate Getting the GED will accomplish this purpose.

3. Get a GED so I can go to college
Many colleges also require an entrance test, and many (low-scoring but
passing) GED holders still cannot pass this entrance test.  In some
cases the students are enrolled in developmental studies (or ESL/ ESOL
courses).  This is often a trap for students whose college financial aid
is used up in these courses before they are ready to enroll in regular
courses which count toward a college certificate or degree.  Also there
are cases where students who pass the college entrance requirement do
not need to have a high school diploma or GED; so the GED is only useful
in meeting this purpose if the student passes with high scores and is in
other ways prepared for post- secondary work.  This is sadly borne out
by the percent of GED holders who get a college degree (under 4%).

4. Get a GED so I can keep my job -- my employer is requiring this
Getting the GED will accomplish this purpose

5. Get a GED to enter a job training program Getting the GED will, in
most cases, accomplish this; however, in some cases a GED is not
required to enter if the student can show high scores in language arts
and/or math on a standardized test like the TABE.

6. Get a GED to advance on the job
Getting the GED will accomplish this purpose IF the employer only
requires passing the GED.  If the employer also assumes that the GED
holder has good oral or written communication skills, the GED may or may
not address that issue.

If you disagree with my analysis of whether the GED will accomplish one
of these purposes, refer to it by number and title and tell us all what
should be added or changed.  If we get good participation on this, we'll
have a useful document for GED teachers everywhere to learn from -- and
if it is put on the ALE Wiki -- add to or change.

By the way, this discussion is taking place on the AAACE-NLA list, too,
and is being archived on the ALE Wiki.  If you want to be sure you see
all the posts, go to the ALE Wiki.

	http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/AleGEDiscussion

If you want to participate in all the online discussions, perhaps
subscribe to the AAACE-NLA list, too.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net

On Nov 30, 2005, at 11:19 AM, Jackson, Varshna wrote:

> It may be easier to see it from the student's perspective: what is the



> point of obtaining the GED?  Is it to get a job that has a minimum 

> requirement of a GED or HS diploma?  Is it to gain entry to higher 

> education?  In either case, I see a fast-track GED program as a way 

> for more students and more advanced students to meet their goals.  

> It's like the HOV lane on the freeway during rush hour.  How many 

> students would sit in the stop- and-go traffic if they knew that with 

> an additional passenger, they can take advantage of the 'short cut' 

> without missing their exit?  GED programs that make the extra effort 

> are that extra passenger.  As educators, we must be willing to use 

> non-traditional methods for non-traditional students.

>

> The reference below to other agencies that operate under outcomes- 

> based accountability systems is real. Here is an excerpt from the 

> Asst.

> Secretary

> of Labor Emily DeRocco's that underscores the point I am making (link:

> http://www.doleta.gov/whatsnew/Derocco_speeches/2005-09-22.cfm):

>

> "But while much of the focus in government, in the media, and by 

> ordinary Americans remains on grade school and high school education, 

> it is really what happens after high school that determines the 

> opportunities available to individuals. It is the post-high school 

> education and training where talent development occurs. "

>

> It is about putting students in the driver's seat.

>

> Thanks, Varshna.

> Varshna Narumanchi-Jackson

> Texas Workforce Commission

> Email:  varshna.jackson at twc.state.tx.us

> Phone:  (512) 463-4245

> Fax: (512) 463-7379

> -----------------------------------------

> Whatever you think you can do, or believe you can do, begin it.

> Action has magic, grace, and power in it.  Goethe

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: assessment-bounces at dev.nifl.gov

> [mailto:assessment-bounces at dev.nifl.gov] On Behalf Of PATRICIA HANDY

> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:29 AM

> To: djrosen at comcast.net; khinson at future-gate.com

> Cc: assessment at dev.nifl.gov

> Subject: Re: [Assessment] Re: Are Fast Track GED Programs a Good 

> Investment

>

>

> I have been pondering the fast track vs. in-depth education dilemma 

> for years so this has been a very interesting discussion. In-depth 

> teaching would seem to serve the student better, but my observation is



> that many never reach the goal of passing the GED Test because they 

> drop out before getting that far. Many are willing to spend a few 

> months in class but not the six or more that are required to be well 

> prepared. Even some who are committed when they begin class are 

> blind-sided by life circumstances beyond their control and need to get



> a job, care for sick family member, etc.

>

> Because of all this, I have tended in recent years to lean toward 

> fast-track teaching, or at least "faster-track." We do get a few more 

> graduates this way, but I still feel unsettled about the ultimate 

> value of this method. One solution is for graduates to remain in class



> even after passing the GED Test, with the goal of building a stronger 

> foundation for their next step in life. I suppose this is a 

> transitional class, but we do not use that designation. Only a few 

> avail themselves of this option.

>

> In conclusion, I have a question: Is there information available 

> showing how long the average student who starts at "x" level takes to 

> be ready for the GED Test?  We use CASAS Life Skills as our assessment



> tool so I would especially like to find information based on CASAS 

> scores, e.g. how many hours of class time does it typically take a 

> student with a 226 CASAS Math score to prepare for the GED Test?  

> Thanks for any help you can give me on this. Pat Handy

>

> Pat Handy

> 410-749-3217

> Coordinator, Wicomico County Adult Learning Center Philmore Commons, 

> Salisbury

>

> Confidentiality Note:

> This message may contain confidential information intended only for 

> the use of the person named above and may contain communication 

> protected by law.

> If you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified 

> that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this 

> message is prohibited and you are requested to notify the sender 

> immediately at his/her electronic mail.

>>>> khinson at future-gate.com 11/29/05 2:38 PM >>>

> I just finished reading the emails related to this discussion.

> Personally, I'm not sure I like fast track programs at all although I 

> understand the dire need some of our students are in when it comes to 

> attaining their GED. It's almost as if it's a competition to 

> "complete" the most students, especially when like in NC, we are 

> moving to performance based funding.  The number of GED Graduates has 

> a direct impact on the amount of funding received. If what I've 

> learned is correct, not only does it affect the funding we have at the



> state level but also at the federal level. With this kind of pressure,



> programs are bound to feel a strong need to "complete" a student - 

> regardless of how and in some cases to how well educated the student 

> leaves the program.

>

> That said, I think there is a need for a "fast track" in some cases. 

> It really depends on the needs and goals of the student.  That doesn't



> mean an instructor should sacrifice "knowledge" for a "test". I agree 

> with Dr.

> Mumford comments in that students often are in such a hurry to 

> "finish" that they rush and end up not having learned anything. 

> Sometimes that "rush"

> feeling is prompted by outside factors out side of the school or basic



> skills program. I've encountered Department of Social Services workers



> who want a student to finish in X number of weeks or hours and who 

> have no knowledge or understanding that a student may not be 

> academically ready to do so. They don't understand that a student 

> coming into a program at  say a

> 3.9 or 5.1 TABE level may or may not be able to learn everything they 

> need to know in such a short time span. I've encountered colleagues 

> who commented that if  I was worried about completion numbers and had 

> DSS students in my class, that if I called the social worker they'd 

> pull them out of class and replace them with someone who would finish.



> For me, it's not all about numbers. I understand and respect the need 

> to meet performance standards as it relates to funding but I'm more 

> concerned with ensuring that my students leave my class with SKILLs 

> not just to pass the GED Test but to make them successful beyond my 

> class whether they go to college or whether they enter the workforce.

>

> Each student that comes into my class has his or her own individual 

> goals and needs. If I know a student does not plan to immediately 

> attend college but rather to enter the workforce,  and depending on 

> the assessment outcomes of instructor made assessment material other 

> than the TABE, I will work to move a student as quickly as he or she 

> demonstrates capability.  I definitely don't want to hinder a student 

> from putting a roof over his or her head or finding a job, at the same



> time, I want them to be able to move beyond a low paying, low skill 

> minimum wage job. If they don't have a solid foundation academically, 

> even if they are stopping with the GED - they are limited in terms of 

> accessing or attaining their full potential.

>

> AT the moment, it feels like there is no balance and a definite lack 

> of

> understanding by those that develop state and national policies   

> for the

> process and barriers faced by an adult learner.  There seems to be a 

> disconnect between the classroom and the policies themselves.

>

> We require students to pass the Official GED Practice test. I have 

> found that the Practice Test is a good indicator of a students ability



> to pass the GED test. My school requires that a student attain a 500 

> or better on the practice test - this guideline is flexible to some 

> degree.  In the long run, I have been able to see that the stronger a 

> person's practice test score the better he/she peforms on the actual 

> test, not all the time but the majority of the time. Conversely, the 

> weaker a student's practice test scores, the weaker he/she may do.

>

> While there may be a need to want to see student's "employed" and 

> "completed"  one of the goals should also to develop an "educated 

> citizenry"

> that can actively shape his or her own future and the lives of those 

> they are around - to educate people to be active participants in their



> community, schools, churches etc....to educate students to the voices 

> they do have and to teach them to use that voice proactively in their 

> own lives and the lives of their families - it's about giving students



> the necessary skills to succeed in MULTIPLE facets of their lives.  

> It's NOT just about "passing the test".  Without real knowledge

> - without giving our students the skills they need to think 

> critically, analytically etc - we are doing them a disservice.  If all



> we're after is fast tracking them towards a "GED" certificate - it 

> would seem to me, we're only applying a band aid to the problems 

> associated with low literacy skills.

>

> That's my two cents on the issue.

>

>

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