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[Assessment 1020] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33Schneider, Jim jschneider at eicc.eduMon Oct 29 12:20:43 EDT 2007
I have to believe that there is a happy middle ground between simply preparing them for the test and expecting that all learners are going to spend the time and effort required to building the skills necessary for success in a college level curriculum. There is little doubt that many GED students are capable of far more than what they actually achieve - however, they are self-determining adults... It is our professional responsibility to ensure that they are aware of the benefits/rewards/consequences of their choices. If we are creative and engaging, we are much more likely will encourage/convince more to elect to become petter prepared... However, there are others who have chosen to not engage in the past, and are not ready to fully engage now... we have a duty to assist them in fulfilling their goals as well - to simply pass the test, get the job, join the military, etc., regardless of whether we agree with them or not. Incidentally, Ralph Tyler (one of the GED creators) conducted a fascinating comprehensive study of the GED that was published in 1956. They knew then that the passing score of the GED was not adequate for college success. They discovered that by raising a passing score to a 50 average (500 in the 2002 Test) greatly increased the likelihood of college success, but eliminated too many students will scores between 45 and 50 who were successful in college. So rather than closing the door on the lesser prepared, the average passing score was left at 45. In my opinion they recognized the realities of adult lives in the 1950's... and while our learners would be better off if they had to be better prepared... we also need to be cognizant of the realities of our learners lives. Jim Schneider Assistant Dean Scott Community College Career Assistance Center 627 W. Second Street Davenport, IA 52801 (563) 326-5319 phone (563) 326-6039 fax Do not despise the small act. Every small act, if you do it deeply, profoundly, can touch the whole universe. Millions of small acts will build a wonderful world. Chan Khong ________________________________ From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Carver, Mary-Lynn Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:13 AM To: assessment at nifl.gov Subject: RE: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33 Wow, I must say I disagree with Mary Lynn Simons. Many ABE/GEDstudents come in just wanting to pass the test, but have no critical thinking or transitional college skills. If we don't help them understand and acquire some of those skills, they will not be able to succeed with the transition to higher education. If not us, who? I think it is one of the first duties of any teacher to give students what they need to succeed in their class and beyond. I don't feel it is paternal/maternalistic to help them set a course to success. Thanks, Mary Lynn Carver ABE/GED Instructor College of Lake County Building 4, Office 405 19351 W. Washington Street Grayslake, IL 60031 Phone:847/543-2677 mlcarver at clcillinois.edu Fax: 847/543-7580 "Blessed are they who laugh at themselves, for they shall be constantly amused" -- Unknown We now accept the fact that learning is a lifelong process of keeping abreast of change. And the most pressing task is to teach people how to learn. --Peter F. Drucker ________________________________ From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of assessment-request at nifl.gov Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 8:23 AM To: assessment at nifl.gov Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33 Send Assessment mailing list submissions to assessment at nifl.gov To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to assessment-request at nifl.gov You can reach the person managing the list at assessment-owner at nifl.gov When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Assessment digest..." Today's Topics: 1. [Assessment 1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills (David J. Rosen) 2. [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! (Mary Lynn Simons) 3. [Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! (Andrea Wilder) 4. [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching Skills (David J. Rosen) 5. [Assessment 1015] GED preparation and creativity (David J. Rosen) 6. [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! (Donna Chambers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:17:10 -0400 From: David J. Rosen <djrosen at comcast.net> Subject: [Assessment 1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills To: The Technology and Literacy Discussion List <technology at nifl.gov>, The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>, The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>, The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <1BB3689A-BB68-4D01-9B2E-5FCFC26EC3B9 at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Colleagues, The Media Library of Teaching Skills (MLoTS) project, a free Web- based library of short digital videos of adult education classrooms and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created reading and numeracy videos and over 30 other videos, including those from: ? NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy tutoring) ? NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology), ? OTAN (integrating technology) and ? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what low-literate ESOL learners can and cannot do with literacy) I hope you will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or tutoring short videos in digital form, please let me know. I am hoping that MLoTS will become a large, "one-stop" collection for adult literacy education classroom videos. David J. Rosen djrosen at comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 01:01:15 +0000 From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com> Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <BAY115-W323773268663F2FF780147BF900 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically decide what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to be able to pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to college or training as fast as possible. ----------------------------------------> From: Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential in GED programs, especially if> students are planning to go on to college! Students who pass the GED with> minimal ability to freely think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh options are usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges> require program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As we> know, writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.>> Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For students to truly> understand history, they must be able to vi sualize different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics and math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to communicate ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another posting made the remark that students in a GED> class who are not reading in class are not practicing reading at all. If> the instructor is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of more> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we might not> get with GED students. But especially with students who want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a long time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how> creativity is used in the co llege classroom as well as what GED students can> expect in college (though perhaps not to this extent, depending on the> teacher and the class). http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer in extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between public schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include> creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County Public Schools> Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108> work 703-791-8387> fax 703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will more students have more and higher academic skills,> better test scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we> want students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or> both? And where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring > now adult secondary education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on high> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only traditional> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills> like the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of thin king (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the box").>> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should> they be? Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED or high> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should be> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical thinking> and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David J. Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching critical>> thinking skills which once our students know how to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be successful in achieving their>> education and other life goals. However, just like K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high stakes spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifle s creativity and teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>> Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized>> test. We need look no further then those who have been successful>> on any type of test. We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,>> just smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are well>> rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I don't know, I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure to the arts, banking industry, faculty ,>> medicine, legal issues as part of your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing then someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. My students participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally frustrated>> when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would>> like." Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>> activities that have to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http:// <http:///> >> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education system -->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED teachers and administrators believe that their>> students will not pass the GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe creativity distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key question on the minds of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I invite the panelists to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original message ---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to>>> give a qu ick reminder where you can get the information on this>>> discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>> suggested resources go to:>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>> 07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - there were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share>> now!>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marie Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the information>> on this discussion. For the full announcement, information on>> guests, and suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/07creativityGED.html>>> >>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>> ------ ------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings , please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to macsimoin at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_O ctWLtagline ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:24:28 -0400 From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> Subject: [Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <9e32f2dbe2ba96b51be97f5819a91d2c at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi Mary Lynn-- One of my mantras for students, no matter the age, has been: "Don't waste their time." Is this what you are getting at? Andrea On Oct 27, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Mary Lynn Simons wrote: > > Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them > accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically > decide what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to > be able to pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to > college or training as fast as possible. > > > > ----------------------------------------> From: > Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct > 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - > what you need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential > in GED programs, especially if> students are planning to go on to > college! Students who pass the GED with> minimal ability to freely > think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh options are > usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges> require > program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As we> know, > writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.>> > Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using> > rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. > Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement > creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For > students to truly> understand history, they must be able to visualize > different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics > and math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to > communicate ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another > posting made the remark that students in a GED> class who are not > reading in class are not practicing reading at all. If> the instructor > is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if the> students > are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of more> > formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take > that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we > might not> get with GED students. But especially with students who > want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED, we need to > have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just > now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a > long time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how> > creativity is used in the college classroom as well as what GED > students can> expect in college (though perhaps not to this extent, > depending on the> teacher and the class). > http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer in > extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend > college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between > public schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED > students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include> > creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine > Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County > Public Schools> Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108> > work 703-791-8387> fax 703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov > [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion > List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to > know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by > creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a > means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will > more students have more and higher academic skills,> better test > scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we> want > students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or> both? And > where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, > that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I would > put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and > as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should > provide students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that > are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking > skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and > the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the > assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary > education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through > standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and > if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education > is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not > paying attention to one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the > historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that > the nearly exclusive focus on high> stakes basic skills tests for > K-12, and the focus on only traditional> basic skills for the GED > tests disrespects important creative skills> like the ability to look > at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives, the ability to > try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to represent > an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other > figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and > follow, but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of > thinking (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the > box").>> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. > No. Should> they be? Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED > or high> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone > to stable> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door > to> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should > be> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical > thinking> and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David J. > Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, > Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean > teaching critical>> thinking skills which once our students know how > to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be successful in > achieving their>> education and other life goals. However, just like > K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high stakes > spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles creativity and > teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult > Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: > assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On > Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> > To: The Assessment Discussion List>> Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: > GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>>>>>> I agree that > creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized>> test. We need > look no further then those who have been successful>> on any type of > test. We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,>> just smart, etc. > If you speak to these folks they are well>> rounded, enjoy reading, > mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I don't know, I just > know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be the reason for > disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more disparity > between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure to the > arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues as part of > your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing > then someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. > My students participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those > that "get into it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that > feel it is a waste of time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" > are generally frustrated>> when "all of their hard work does not pay > off like they would>> like." Creativity also leads to retention; > especially those>> activities that have to be completed in increments. > Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley Ledet>>>> GED > Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>> > Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy > education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of > the National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a > presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, > http:// <http:///> >> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education > system -->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive > without high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED > teachers and administrators believe that their>> students will not > pass the GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to > pass the test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. > (Many K-12 teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe > creativity distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be > the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key question on the minds > of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I invite the panelists > to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for > success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> > -------------- Original message ---------------------->> From: "Marie > Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> We've had several new subscribers over the > past day, and so I>> wanted to>>> give a quick reminder where you can > get the information on this>>> discussion. For the full announcement, > information on guests, and>>> suggested resources go to:>>>>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>> > 07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - > there were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please > post your questions and also your own experiences to share>> > now!>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List > Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List > Moderator>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: > "Marie Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what > you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi > everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, > and so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the > information>> on this discussion. For the full announcement, > information on>> guests, and suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/ > 07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ? > there were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at: > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share > now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> Assessment Discussion > List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List > Moderator>>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> > Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or > change your subscription settings, please go to>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to > djrosen at comcast.net>> ------------------------------->> National > Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> > Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription > settings, please go to>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to > msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National > Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> > Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription > settings, please go to>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to > djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> National > Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to > kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> National > Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to > macsimoin at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. > Stop by today. > http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html? > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline > ------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Assessment mailing list > Assessment at nifl.gov > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment > Email delivered to andreawilder at comcast.net > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:39:24 -0400 From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net> Subject: [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching Skills To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <0570AB67-85EE-4F24-AF0B-2E657CB60778 at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed ....and the Web address for MLoTS is: http://www.mlots.org <http://www.mlots.org/> David J. Rosen djrosen at comcast.net On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:17 PM, David J. Rosen wrote: > Colleagues, > > The Media Library of Teaching Skills (MLoTS) project, a free Web- > based library of short digital videos of adult education classrooms > and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created reading and numeracy > videos and over 30 other videos, including those from: > > ? NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy > tutoring) > ? NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology), > ? OTAN (integrating technology) > and > ? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what low-literate ESOL > learners can and cannot do with literacy) > > I hope you will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or > tutoring short videos in digital form, please let me know. I am > hoping that MLoTS will become a large, "one-stop" collection for > adult literacy education classroom videos. > > David J. Rosen > djrosen at comcast.net > > > > ------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Assessment mailing list > Assessment at nifl.gov > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment > Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:17:38 -0400 From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net> Subject: [Assessment 1015] GED preparation and creativity To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <65D538BA-4A9D-42EE-A726-89161F3F5D5C at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hello Andrea, On Oct 27, 2007, you wrote: > Has anybody yet in this conversation defined 1. critical reading > and 2. creativity? Here's more on defining creativity. To begin with, it's quite unlikely that we will agree on a definition. There are more than 60 of them in the psychological literature (Taylor, 1988), and as far as I am aware there is no standardized measurement instrument for creativity. Some believe it is inherited; some believe it can be taught; some believe it can be nurtured or encouraged. I believe that some kinds of creativity can be taught or at least nurtured and that it involves a set of mental activities often closely aligned with the kind of mental activities we call critical thinking. Most of us would agree, I believe, that a key element is originality, but we might differ in describing the paths to it. And it may look different in different contexts, in the sciences, in the arts, in technology, and in the creative problem solving of daily living. In the context in which I raised the issue of creativity, I was thinking of the application of new ideas, what some would refer to as innovation or ingenuity. It is this applied creativity that I believe Marc Tucker had in mind as something that Americans have historically valued and excelled at, that has been an element of American economic success, and that may be undervalued or lost now in the education systems' rush toward performance on high stakes standardized tests. Are adult literacy education students (including basic education, secondary education and ESOL) capable of this kind of creativity? If so, should we nurture it? I believe they are and that we should. In many GED programs I have seen, it is not nourished, usually not even acknowledged in program goals or objectives. And I have never seen it measured. This indicates to me that, as a field, we do not value and support student creativity. I agree with Marc Tucker that, if we are interested in Americans' global competitiveness that we should value creativity, and of course, there are other good reasons to nourish creativity. What do you think about this? * Taylor, C.W. (1988). "Various approaches to and definitions of creativity", in ed. Sternberg, R.J.: The nature of creativity: Contemporary psychological perspectives. Cambridge University Press. David J. Rosen djrosen at comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 07:51:18 -0400 From: "Donna Chambers" <donnaedp at cox.net> Subject: [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <001f01c81958$da000530$8e5fdd48 at DH89L251> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Mary Lynn, Your argument to push learners forward is a common belief. I am not suggesting to hold learners back, but if we are to prepare them for just "passing the test" we are overlooking the "ASE" responsibility of our job. Preparing the learner to possess the expected academic skills of a high school student and be ready to transition to college level academics is in the learners' best interest in respect to time and money. Community College should not have to remediate adult basic skills, and yet they do. If the GED were to be more aligned with the tests required to enter community college, such as the Accuplacer, the transition would be smoother, but it is not. Preparation for the learners next steps, which includes basic and secondary fundamental skills, is the responsibility of Adult Literacy. Donna Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Lynn Simons" <macsimoin at hotmail.com> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:01 PM Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically decide what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to be able to pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to college or training as fast as possible. ----------------------------------------> From: Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential in GED programs, especially if> students are planning to go on to college! Students who pass the GED with> minimal ability to freely think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh options are usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges> require program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As we> know, writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.>> Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For students to truly> understand history, they must be able to visualize different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics and math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to communicate ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another posting made the remark that students in a GED> class who are not reading in class are not practicing reading at all. If> the instructor is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of more> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we might not> get with GED students. But especially with students who want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a long time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how> creativity is used in the college classroom as well as what GED students can> expect in college (though perhaps not to this extent, depending on the> teacher and the class). http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer in extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between public schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include> creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County Public Schools> Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108> work 703-791-8387> fax 703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will more students have more and higher academic skills,> better test scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we> want students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or> both? And where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on high> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only traditional> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills> like the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of thinking (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the box").>> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should> they be? Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED or high> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should be> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical thinking> and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David J. Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching critical>> thinking skills which once our students know how to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be successful in achieving their>> education and other life goals. However, just like K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high stakes spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles creativity and teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>> Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized>> test. We need look no further then those who have been successful>> on any type of test. We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,>> just smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are well>> rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I don't know, I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure to the arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues as part of your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing then someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. My students participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally frustrated>> when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would>> like." Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>> activities that have to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http:// <http:///> >> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education system -->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED teachers and administrators believe that their>> students will not pass the GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe creativity distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key question on the minds of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I invite the panelists to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original message ---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to>>> give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this>>> discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>> suggested resources go to:>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>> 07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - there were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share>> now!>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marie Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the information>> on this discussion. For the full announcement, information on>> guests, and suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/07creativityGED.html>>> >>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to macsimoin at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_O ctWLtagline ------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Assessment mailing list Assessment at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment Email delivered to donnaedp at cox.net ------------------------------ ------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Assessment mailing list Assessment at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment End of Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33 ****************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/attachments/20071029/8485839c/attachment.html
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