I think this goes back to the "what is creativity" question. Can a
teacher teach creativity? Or can a teacher simply provide a large
enough variety of information and the enthusiasm to seek out more,
thus providing students with the means and motivation to apply the
knowledge in creative ways?


On 10/29/07, Michael Tate <mtate at sbctc.edu> wrote:

>

>

>

> In all the studies I've read, when business leaders are asked what kind of

> intelligence they want in a worker, they say they want intuitive thinking .

> They are looking for people who can quickly size up a situation from

> incomplete data, make a decision, and implement a strategy that works.

> They're not looking for the painfully slow (and hugely expensive)

> deliberative process that government  uses.  Adult education is generally

> unable to offer training in creative thinking because it doesn't have

> teachers who can teach creativity.  That's not likely to change until adult

> education is provided by a sector that values creativity higher than

> consensus.

>

>

>

> Michael Tate

>

>

>

>

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On

> Behalf Of Carver, Mary-Lynn

> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 1:23 PM

> To: assessment at nifl.gov

> Subject: RE: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 31

>

>

>

>

>

> Donna Chambers -

>

>

> Well said. I am in total agreement.

>

>

>

>

>

> Where do we start?

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> Mary Lynn Carver

>

>

> ABE/GED Instructor

>

>

> College of Lake County

>

>

> Building 4, Office 405

>

>

> 19351 W. Washington Street

>

>

> Grayslake, IL  60031

>

>

> Phone:847/543-2677

>

>

> mlcarver at clcillinois.edu

>

>

> Fax: 847/543-7580

>

>

>

>

>

> "Blessed are they who laugh at themselves, for they shall be constantly

> amused" -- Unknown

>

>

>

>

>

> We now accept the fact that learning is a lifelong process of keeping

> abreast of change. And the most pressing task is to teach people how to

> learn. --Peter F. Drucker

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

>

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of assessment-request at nifl.gov

> Sent: Sat 10/27/2007 11:00 AM

> To: assessment at nifl.gov

> Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 31

>

>

> Send Assessment mailing list submissions to

>         assessment at nifl.gov

>

> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>         http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>         assessment-request at nifl.gov

>

> You can reach the person managing the list at

>         assessment-owner at nifl.gov

>

> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

> than "Re: Contents of Assessment digest..."

>

>

> Today's Topics:

>

>    1. [Assessment 1006] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

>       (Donna Chambers)

>    2. [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

>       (Katherine G)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:10:29 -0400

> From: "Donna Chambers" <donnaedp at cox.net>

> Subject: [Assessment 1006] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

> Message-ID: <005e01c8189a$bfe81f70$8e5fdd48 at DH89L251>

> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";

>         reply-type=original

>

> David and All,

>

> Let's not confuse critical thinking with creativity.  Critical thinking is a

> learned process, whereas, creativity is a mental vision and can be nurtured,

> but not necessarily learned..  In Adult Education creativity is not a

> necessary skill, while critical thinking should be paramount.

>

> I work in ASE through competency-based performance assessment programs such

> as the Adult Diploma Program and the National External Diploma Program.

> This work has allowed me to focus on what adults need to know and be able to

> do and this information has changed over the years.  Most states' education

> systems are moving toward being standards driven.Adult Education seems to be

> GED driven.  As such, is limited to just what is necessary to pass the GED.

> The need for competency/proficiency based instruction and assessment is

> apparent, at least to me.

>

> In today's world, critical thinking should be high on the list of

> competencies that need to be learned.  Merely passing a standardized test

> does not guarantee that the adult is able to think critically. Yet, from the

> perspective of the instructors, administrators, students, and policy makers,

> passing the test has become paramount  in Adult Education. Outcomes has been

> translated to mean numbers of GED passers. Minimally passing the GED is

> "good enough" as a good outcome. If the student can just pass the GED, all

> will be well.   Not necessarily so!

>

> Adult Education needs complete reform.  Let's look at what the metacognative

> research tells us and design a system around what essential knowledge and

> skills are needed today, embedding critical thinking/reading skills into all

> activities. Refocus the outcome from just passing the GED to a performance

> based demonstration of competencies based on what adults need to know and be

> able to do today.  Passing the GED will still be an attainable measure, but

> only one of many that need to be achieved.  Instructors and students must

> know that building a strong foundation of basic knowledge and thinking

> skills will lead to passing the test.  A strong foundation will, more

> importantly, guarantee success for the next steps beyond high school

> certification and provide the cognitive functional skills needed in our

> complex world. This must be communicated to the learners from the beginning

> upon entering AE programs.  Learners must be given the opportunity to

> understand what commitment in time and effort is needed on the path to skill

> building and filling in gaps process in order to achieve their goals.

> Changing the paradigm will be a win-win for everyone and the outcomes will

> be more meaningful.

>

> Donna  Chambers

>

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net>

> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 PM

> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

>

>

> Assessment colleagues,

>

> Toni asked what we mean by creativity.  Good question. I'll give it a

> shot.

>

> Is creativity a means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching

> approaches will more students have more and higher academic skills,

> better test scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we

> want students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or

> both?  And where do critical skills fit in?

>

> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic

> skills and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both

> these catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary

> education (e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the

> opportunity to have academic skills that are strong enough to succeed

> in college, strong critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable

> from strong academic skills), and the skills of creative problem

> solving.

>

> Since this is the assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring

> now adult secondary education programs?

>

> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through standardized tests

> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and if so how?

> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is measuring

> creative skills.

>

> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to one of the

> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the U.S. I

> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on high

> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only traditional

> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills

> like the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different

> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a range of

> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image, a moving

> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language, or

> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead to

> disregard instructions or traditional paths of thinking (what we now

> often describe as "thinking outside the box").

>

> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should

> they be? Not necessarily.  But for students who see the GED or high

> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable

> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to

> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should be

> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical thinking

> and creativity.

>

> I invite your comments on this.

>

> David J. Rosen

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:

>

> > When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching critical

> > thinking skills which once our students know how to think in a

> > critical thinking way they will be successful in achieving their

> > education and other life goals. However, just like K-12 education,

> > adult education is captured on the high stakes spinning wheel of

> > accountability which stifles creativity and teachers teach to the

> > test.

> >

> > Toni Borge

> >

> > BHCC

> > Adult Education & Transitions Program

> >

> > Boston, MA

> >

> >

> >

> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-

> > bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet

> > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM

> > To: The Assessment Discussion List

> > Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized

> > test.  We need look no further then those who have been successful

> > on any type of test.  We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,

> > just smart, etc.  If you speak to these folks they are well

> > rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like

> > "I don't know, I just know stuff."  Researchers have found that

> > this may be the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe

> > there is more disparity between socio economic background then

> > ethnicity. Exposure to the arts, banking industry, faculty,

> > medicine, legal issues as part of your everyday life tends to offer

> > more of an advantage when testing then someone whose only exposure

> > is to go to school and study hard. My students participate in a

> > quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" tend to

> > do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of time

> > and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally frustrated

> > when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would

> > like."  Creativity also leads to retention; especially those

> > activities that have to be completed in increments.  Let's bring on

> > more creativity!

> >

> > Shirley Ledet

> >

> > GED Instructor

> >

> > NHC-Carver

> >

> > djrosen at comcast.net wrote:

> >

> > Colleagues,

> >

> > I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy education --

> > indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National

> > Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a presention

> > recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http://

> > www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education

> system --

> > and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high

> > academic standards AND creativity.

> >

> > But many GED teachers and administrators believe that their

> > students will not pass the GED unless they focus on skills and

> > knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a

> > "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,

> > administrators or policy makers also believe creativity distracts

> > from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this

> > issue, but it's the key question on the minds of many GED teachers

> > and administrators, so I invite the panelists to address it.

> >

> > Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for success? Why?

> >

> >

> > David J. Rosen

> > djrosen at comcast.net

> >

> > -------------- Original message ----------------------

> > From: "Marie Cora"

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I

> > wanted to

> > > give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this

> > > discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and

> > > suggested resources go to:

> > >

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/

> > 07creativityGED.html

> > >

> > > If you missed the posts from yesterday - there were a couple -

> > you can

> > > catch up in the archives at:

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html

> > >

> > > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share

> > now!

> > >

> > > Thanks!!

> > >

> > > Marie Cora

> > > Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Marie Cora

> > > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> > > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

> > To: <Assessment at nifl.gov>

> > Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> >

> >

> > We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I

> > wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the information

> > on this discussion.  For the full announcement, information on

> > guests, and suggested resources go to:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/07creativityGED.html

> >

> >

> >

> > If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there were a couple ? you

> > can catch up in the archives at:  http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/

> > assessment/2007/date.html

> >

> >

> >

> > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share now!

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks!!

> >

> >

> >

> > Marie Cora

> >

> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Marie Cora

> >

> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> >

> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> >

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Assessment mailing list

> > Assessment at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net

> > -------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Assessment mailing list

> > Assessment at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > Email delivered to msledet at yahoo.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Assessment mailing list

> > Assessment at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Assessment mailing list

> Assessment at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> Email delivered to donnaedp at cox.net

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:35:10 -0400

> From: "Katherine G" <Kgotthardt at comcast.net>

> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

> Message-ID:

> <MHEMKJNHLDIEMGGCCKCCMEFEDMAA.Kgotthardt at comcast.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="Windows-1252"

>

> David, I agree that creativity is essential in GED programs, especially if

> students are planning to go on to college!  Students who pass the GED with

> minimal ability to freely think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and

> weigh options are usually at a loss in the college classroom.  Most colleges

> require program elements such as "writing across the curriculum."  As we

> know, writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.

>

> Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using

> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more.  Humanities

> courses demand students to understand and even implement creative forms,

> figures of speech, figurative language, and more.  For students to truly

> understand history, they must be able to visualize different time periods.

> Symbolic thought translates into statistics and math classes in which

> graphs, numbers and equations are used to communicate ideas.  The list goes

> on.

>

> Someone here or in another posting made the remark that students in a GED

> class who are not reading in class are not practicing reading at all.  If

> the instructor is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if the

> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading.  In terms of more

> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take that

> home.  Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we might not

> get with GED students.  But especially with students who want to pursue

> higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the time to teach

> them to think critically.

>

> Finally, I just now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't

> studied in a long time but did in my past lives.  The essay demonstrates how

> creativity is used in the college classroom as well as what GED students can

> expect in college (though perhaps not to this extent, depending on the

> teacher and the class).

> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm

>

> I'm a firm believer in extensive transitional services for GED students

> planning to attend college, and I think it's essential to have

> communications between public schools and college to make this happen if we

> want GED students to succeed.  Part of these discussions should include

> creativity used and expected in every academic setting.

>

>

> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor

> Prince William County Public Schools

> Adult Education

> P.O. Box 389

> Manassas, VA 20108

> work 703-791-8387

> fax 703-791-8889

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On

> Behalf Of David J. Rosen

> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM

> To: The Assessment Discussion List

> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

>

>

> Assessment colleagues,

>

> Toni asked what we mean by creativity.  Good question. I'll give it a

> shot.

>

> Is creativity a means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching

> approaches will more students have more and higher academic skills,

> better test scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we

> want students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or

> both?  And where do critical skills fit in?

>

> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic

> skills and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both

> these catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary

> education (e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the

> opportunity to have academic skills that are strong enough to succeed

> in college, strong critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable

> from strong academic skills), and the skills of creative problem

> solving.

>

> Since this is the assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring

> now adult secondary education programs?

>

> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through standardized tests

> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and if so how?

> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is measuring

> creative skills.

>

> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to one of the

> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the U.S. I

> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on high

> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only traditional

> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills

> like the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different

> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a range of

> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image, a moving

> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language, or

> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead to

> disregard instructions or traditional paths of thinking (what we now

> often describe as "thinking outside the box").

>

> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should

> they be? Not necessarily.  But for students who see the GED or high

> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable

> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to

> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should be

> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical thinking

> and creativity.

>

> I invite your comments on this.

>

> David J. Rosen

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:

>

> > When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching critical

> > thinking skills which once our students know how to think in a

> > critical thinking way they will be successful in achieving their

> > education and other life goals. However, just like K-12 education,

> > adult education is captured on the high stakes spinning wheel of

> > accountability which stifles creativity and teachers teach to the

> > test.

> >

> > Toni Borge

> >

> > BHCC

> > Adult Education & Transitions Program

> >

> > Boston, MA

> >

> >

> >

> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-

> > bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet

> > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM

> > To: The Assessment Discussion List

> > Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized

> > test.  We need look no further then those who have been successful

> > on any type of test.  We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,

> > just smart, etc.  If you speak to these folks they are well

> > rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like

> > "I don't know, I just know stuff."  Researchers have found that

> > this may be the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe

> > there is more disparity between socio economic background then

> > ethnicity. Exposure to the arts, banking industry, faculty,

> > medicine, legal issues as part of your everyday life tends to offer

> > more of an advantage when testing then someone whose only exposure

> > is to go to school and study hard. My students participate in a

> > quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" tend to

> > do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of time

> > and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally frustrated

> > when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would

> > like."  Creativity also leads to retention; especially those

> > activities that have to be completed in increments.  Let's bring on

> > more creativity!

> >

> > Shirley Ledet

> >

> > GED Instructor

> >

> > NHC-Carver

> >

> > djrosen at comcast.net wrote:

> >

> > Colleagues,

> >

> > I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy education --

> > indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National

> > Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a presention

> > recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http://

> > www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education

> system --

> > and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high

> > academic standards AND creativity.

> >

> > But many GED teachers and administrators believe that their

> > students will not pass the GED unless they focus on skills and

> > knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a

> > "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,

> > administrators or policy makers also believe creativity distracts

> > from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this

> > issue, but it's the key question on the minds of many GED teachers

> > and administrators, so I invite the panelists to address it.

> >

> > Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for success? Why?

> >

> >

> > David J. Rosen

> > djrosen at comcast.net

> >

> > -------------- Original message ----------------------

> > From: "Marie Cora"

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I

> > wanted to

> > > give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this

> > > discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and

> > > suggested resources go to:

> > >

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/

> > 07creativityGED.html

> > >

> > > If you missed the posts from yesterday - there were a couple -

> > you can

> > > catch up in the archives at:

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html

> > >

> > > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share

> > now!

> > >

> > > Thanks!!

> > >

> > > Marie Cora

> > > Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Marie Cora

> > > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> > > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

> > To: <Assessment at nifl.gov>

> > Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> >

> >

> > We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I

> > wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the information

> > on this discussion.  For the full announcement, information on

> > guests, and suggested resources go to:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/07creativityGED.html

> >

> >

> >

> > If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there were a couple ? you

> > can catch up in the archives at:  http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/

> > assessment/2007/date.html

> >

> >

> >

> > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share now!

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks!!

> >

> >

> >

> > Marie Cora

> >

> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Marie Cora

> >

> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> >

> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> >

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Assessment mailing list

> > Assessment at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net

> > -------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Assessment mailing list

> > Assessment at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > Email delivered to msledet at yahoo.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Assessment mailing list

> > Assessment at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Assessment mailing list

> Assessment at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> Email delivered to kgotthardt at comcast.net

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>

>

> ------------------------------

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> -------------------------------

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> Assessment mailing list

> Assessment at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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>

> End of Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 31

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> Today's Topics:

>

>    1. [Assessment 1006] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

>       (Donna Chambers)

>    2. [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

>       (Katherine G)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:10:29 -0400

> From: "Donna Chambers" <donnaedp at cox.net>

> Subject: [Assessment 1006] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

> Message-ID: <005e01c8189a$bfe81f70$8e5fdd48 at DH89L251>

> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";

>         reply-type=original

>

> David and All,

>

> Let's not confuse critical thinking with creativity.  Critical thinking is a

> learned process, whereas, creativity is a mental vision and can be nurtured,

> but not necessarily learned..  In Adult Education creativity is not a

> necessary skill, while critical thinking should be paramount.

>

> I work in ASE through competency-based performance assessment programs such

> as the Adult Diploma Program and the National External Diploma Program.

> This work has allowed me to focus on what adults need to know and be able to

> do and this information has changed over the years.  Most states' education

> systems are moving toward being standards driven.Adult Education seems to be

> GED driven.  As such, is limited to just what is necessary to pass the GED.

> The need for competency/proficiency based instruction and assessment is

> apparent, at least to me.

>

> In today's world, critical thinking should be high on the list of

> competencies that need to be learned.  Merely passing a standardized test

> does not guarantee that the adult is able to think critically. Yet, from the

> perspective of the instructors, administrators, students, and policy makers,

> passing the test has become paramount  in Adult Education. Outcomes has been

> translated to mean numbers of GED passers. Minimally passing the GED is

> "good enough" as a good outcome. If the student can just pass the GED, all

> will be well.   Not necessarily so!

>

> Adult Education needs complete reform.  Let's look at what the metacognative

> research tells us and design a system around what essential knowledge and

> skills are needed today, embedding critical thinking/reading skills into all

> activities. Refocus the outcome from just passing the GED to a performance

> based demonstration of competencies based on what adults need to know and be

> able to do today.  Passing the GED will still be an attainable measure, but

> only one of many that need to be achieved.  Instructors and students must

> know that building a strong foundation of basic knowledge and thinking

> skills will lead to passing the test.  A strong foundation will, more

> importantly, guarantee success for the next steps beyond high school

> certification and provide the cognitive functional skills needed in our

> complex world. This must be communicated to the learners from the beginning

> upon entering AE programs.  Learners must be given the opportunity to

> understand what commitment in time and effort is needed on the path to skill

> building and filling in gaps process in order to achieve their goals.

> Changing the paradigm will be a win-win for everyone and the outcomes will

> be more meaningful.

>

> Donna  Chambers

>

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net>

> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 PM

> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

>

>

> Assessment colleagues,

>

> Toni asked what we mean by creativity.  Good question. I'll give it a

> shot.

>

> Is creativity a means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching

> approaches will more students have more and higher academic skills,

> better test scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we

> want students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or

> both?  And where do critical skills fit in?

>

> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic

> skills and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both

> these catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary

> education (e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the

> opportunity to have academic skills that are strong enough to succeed

> in college, strong critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable

> from strong academic skills), and the skills of creative problem

> solving.

>

> Since this is the assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring

> now adult secondary education programs?

>

> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through standardized tests

> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and if so how?

> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is measuring

> creative skills.

>

> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to one of the

> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the U.S. I

> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on high

> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only traditional

> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills

> like the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different

> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a range of

> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image, a moving

> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language, or

> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead to

> disregard instructions or traditional paths of thinking (what we now

> often describe as "thinking outside the box").

>

> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should

> they be? Not necessarily.  But for students who see the GED or high

> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable

> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to

> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should be

> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical thinking

> and creativity.

>

> I invite your comments on this.

>

> David J. Rosen

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:

>

> > When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching critical

> > thinking skills which once our students know how to think in a

> > critical thinking way they will be successful in achieving their

> > education and other life goals. However, just like K-12 education,

> > adult education is captured on the high stakes spinning wheel of

> > accountability which stifles creativity and teachers teach to the

> > test.

> >

> > Toni Borge

> >

> > BHCC

> > Adult Education & Transitions Program

> >

> > Boston, MA

> >

> >

> >

> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-

> > bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet

> > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM

> > To: The Assessment Discussion List

> > Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized

> > test.  We need look no further then those who have been successful

> > on any type of test.  We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,

> > just smart, etc.  If you speak to these folks they are well

> > rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like

> > "I don't know, I just know stuff."  Researchers have found that

> > this may be the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe

> > there is more disparity between socio economic background then

> > ethnicity. Exposure to the arts, banking industry, faculty,

> > medicine, legal issues as part of your everyday life tends to offer

> > more of an advantage when testing then someone whose only exposure

> > is to go to school and study hard. My students participate in a

> > quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" tend to

> > do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of time

> > and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally frustrated

> > when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would

> > like."  Creativity also leads to retention; especially those

> > activities that have to be completed in increments.  Let's bring on

> > more creativity!

> >

> > Shirley Ledet

> >

> > GED Instructor

> >

> > NHC-Carver

> >

> > djrosen at comcast.net wrote:

> >

> > Colleagues,

> >

> > I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy education --

> > indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National

> > Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a presention

> > recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http://

> > www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education

> system --

> > and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high

> > academic standards AND creativity.

> >

> > But many GED teachers and administrators believe that their

> > students will not pass the GED unless they focus on skills and

> > knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a

> > "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,

> > administrators or policy makers also believe creativity distracts

> > from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this

> > issue, but it's the key question on the minds of many GED teachers

> > and administrators, so I invite the panelists to address it.

> >

> > Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for success? Why?

> >

> >

> > David J. Rosen

> > djrosen at comcast.net

> >

> > -------------- Original message ----------------------

> > From: "Marie Cora"

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I

> > wanted to

> > > give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this

> > > discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and

> > > suggested resources go to:

> > >

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/

> > 07creativityGED.html

> > >

> > > If you missed the posts from yesterday - there were a couple -

> > you can

> > > catch up in the archives at:

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html

> > >

> > > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share

> > now!

> > >

> > > Thanks!!

> > >

> > > Marie Cora

> > > Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Marie Cora

> > > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> > > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

> > To: <Assessment at nifl.gov>

> > Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> >

> >

> > We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I

> > wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the information

> > on this discussion.  For the full announcement, information on

> > guests, and suggested resources go to:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/07creativityGED.html

> >

> >

> >

> > If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there were a couple ? you

> > can catch up in the archives at:  http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/

> > assessment/2007/date.html

> >

> >

> >

> > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share now!

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks!!

> >

> >

> >

> > Marie Cora

> >

> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Marie Cora

> >

> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> >

> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> >

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Assessment mailing list

> > Assessment at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net

> > -------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Assessment mailing list

> > Assessment at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > Email delivered to msledet at yahoo.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Assessment mailing list

> > Assessment at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Assessment mailing list

> Assessment at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> Email delivered to donnaedp at cox.net

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:35:10 -0400

> From: "Katherine G" <Kgotthardt at comcast.net>

> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

> Message-ID:

> <MHEMKJNHLDIEMGGCCKCCMEFEDMAA.Kgotthardt at comcast.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="Windows-1252"

>

> David, I agree that creativity is essential in GED programs, especially if

> students are planning to go on to college!  Students who pass the GED with

> minimal ability to freely think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and

> weigh options are usually at a loss in the college classroom.  Most colleges

> require program elements such as "writing across the curriculum."  As we

> know, writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.

>

> Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using

> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more.  Humanities

> courses demand students to understand and even implement creative forms,

> figures of speech, figurative language, and more.  For students to truly

> understand history, they must be able to visualize different time periods.

> Symbolic thought translates into statistics and math classes in which

> graphs, numbers and equations are used to communicate ideas.  The list goes

> on.

>

> Someone here or in another posting made the remark that students in a GED

> class who are not reading in class are not practicing reading at all.  If

> the instructor is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if the

> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading.  In terms of more

> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take that

> home.  Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we might not

> get with GED students.  But especially with students who want to pursue

> higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the time to teach

> them to think critically.

>

> Finally, I just now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't

> studied in a long time but did in my past lives.  The essay demonstrates how

> creativity is used in the college classroom as well as what GED students can

> expect in college (though perhaps not to this extent, depending on the

> teacher and the class).

> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm

>

> I'm a firm believer in extensive transitional services for GED students

> planning to attend college, and I think it's essential to have

> communications between public schools and college to make this happen if we

> want GED students to succeed.  Part of these discussions should include

> creativity used and expected in every academic setting.

>

>

> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor

> Prince William County Public Schools

> Adult Education

> P.O. Box 389

> Manassas, VA 20108

> work 703-791-8387

> fax 703-791-8889

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On

> Behalf Of David J. Rosen

> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM

> To: The Assessment Discussion List

> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

>

>

> Assessment colleagues,

>

> Toni asked what we mean by creativity.  Good question. I'll give it a

> shot.

>

> Is creativity a means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching

> approaches will more students have more and higher academic skills,

> better test scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we

> want students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or

> both?  And where do critical skills fit in?

>

> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic

> skills and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both

> these catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary

> education (e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the

> opportunity to have academic skills that are strong enough to succeed

> in college, strong critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable

> from strong academic skills), and the skills of creative problem

> solving.

>

> Since this is the assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring

> now adult secondary education programs?

>

> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through standardized tests

> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and if so how?

> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is measuring

> creative skills.

>

> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to one of the

> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the U.S. I

> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on high

> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only traditional

> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills

> like the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different

> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a range of

> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image, a moving

> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language, or

> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead to

> disregard instructions or traditional paths of thinking (what we now

> often describe as "thinking outside the box").

>

> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should

> they be? Not necessarily.  But for students who see the GED or high

> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable

> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to

> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should be

> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical thinking

> and creativity.

>

> I invite your comments on this.

>

> David J. Rosen

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:

>

> > When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching critical

> > thinking skills which once our students know how to think in a

> > critical thinking way they will be successful in achieving their

> > education and other life goals. However, just like K-12 education,

> > adult education is captured on the high stakes spinning wheel of

> > accountability which stifles creativity and teachers teach to the

> > test.

> >

> > Toni Borge

> >

> > BHCC

> > Adult Education & Transitions Program

> >

> > Boston, MA

> >

> >

> >

> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-

> > bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet

> > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM

> > To: The Assessment Discussion List

> > Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized

> > test.  We need look no further then those who have been successful

> > on any type of test.  We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,

> > just smart, etc.  If you speak to these folks they are well

> > rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like

> > "I don't know, I just know stuff."  Researchers have found that

> > this may be the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe

> > there is more disparity between socio economic background then

> > ethnicity. Exposure to the arts, banking industry, faculty,

> > medicine, legal issues as part of your everyday life tends to offer

> > more of an advantage when testing then someone whose only exposure

> > is to go to school and study hard. My students participate in a

> > quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" tend to

> > do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of time

> > and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally frustrated

> > when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would

> > like."  Creativity also leads to retention; especially those

> > activities that have to be completed in increments.  Let's bring on

> > more creativity!

> >

> > Shirley Ledet

> >

> > GED Instructor

> >

> > NHC-Carver

> >

> > djrosen at comcast.net wrote:

> >

> > Colleagues,

> >

> > I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy education --

> > indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National

> > Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a presention

> > recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http://

> > www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education

> system --

> > and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high

> > academic standards AND creativity.

> >

> > But many GED teachers and administrators believe that their

> > students will not pass the GED unless they focus on skills and

> > knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a

> > "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,

> > administrators or policy makers also believe creativity distracts

> > from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this

> > issue, but it's the key question on the minds of many GED teachers

> > and administrators, so I invite the panelists to address it.

> >

> > Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for success? Why?

> >

> >

> > David J. Rosen

> > djrosen at comcast.net

> >

> > -------------- Original message ----------------------

> > From: "Marie Cora"

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I

> > wanted to

> > > give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this

> > > discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and

> > > suggested resources go to:

> > >

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/

> > 07creativityGED.html

> > >

> > > If you missed the posts from yesterday - there were a couple -

> > you can

> > > catch up in the archives at:

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html

> > >

> > > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share

> > now!

> > >

> > > Thanks!!

> > >

> > > Marie Cora

> > > Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Marie Cora

> > > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> > > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

> > To: <Assessment at nifl.gov>

> > Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you need to know!

> > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> >

> >

> > We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I

> > wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the information

> > on this discussion.  For the full announcement, information on

> > guests, and suggested resources go to:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/07creativityGED.html

> >

> >

> >

> > If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there were a couple ? you

> > can catch up in the archives at:  http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/

> > assessment/2007/date.html

> >

> >

> >

> > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share now!

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks!!

> >

> >

> >

> > Marie Cora

> >

> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Marie Cora

> >

> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> >

> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

> >

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

> >

> >

> >

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> End of Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 31

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