Bravo for being a creative educator and retaining your students!!
 
Joanie Rethlake, Texas LEARNS
 
________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:10 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1048] Re: GED, Creativity and Fast-tracking
 
The thing is that students learn better if information relates to their
knowledge and experiences. For example, in my program, students have
difficulty writing. Once we get them to write about their own
experiences, and teach them to do so, they become better writers. They
also publish their stories. Also, our students face health barriers and
want to learn about health prevention, improvement, access. They also
take nutrition classes. Because they are interested in these topics,
they learn fast and they remain focused and motivated. Also we have good
retention. 

Ultimately, these topics do not deter them to learn information to pass
the GED. The GED is basically having good reading, writing and math
skills and test taking skills. It doesn't really matter if you teaching
them to read by using the Glencoe GED book, or a health brochure, a bag
of potato chips, legal information, etc. I do this workshop in which I
show teachers that I can teach pretty much all the math skills for the
GED using a bag of potato chips. I can also teach reading, writing and
graph skills with the same bag. Thing is, bags of potato chips are
fascinating to students.  They capture  their imagination and keep them
focused and working on task.  They are also learning how to read
nutrition labels and how to watch what they eat. 

So, in a sense, teaching the GED and teaching things that are not in the
book are not necessarily contradictory things. Also, in my program, in
every class,  we have a small percentage of students who have diabetes
and don't even know about it. We do a glucose test every semester. Those
who have diabetes are referred to the doctor. To us, even if these
students don't pass the GED, it is a triumph. We essentially saved
limbs, if not lives. In fact, most of these students do get the GED. We
also have victims of domestic violence that start to get counseling,
support and protection. Many of these people would never get the GED. 

Finally, as I said before, our students get published, which is a huge
self esteem builder. You can see the student's writings at
http://bordersenses.com/memorias.  Click on the books below. You can
click on traducciones on the right to read the translations. Imagine a
GED student who gets published and shows that to her peers, teachers,
relatives. How many students ever dream of getting published or think
that they have any knowledge worth sharing?

Andres
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 7:25 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1047] Re: GED, Creativity and Fast-tracking





 I still say students should get their GED as soon as possible and that
it is 




not our job to hold students back by teaching them not only to pass the
test but 




things we personally think they should know. We are hired to help people
pass 




the test; that is what the taxpayers want us to do and that is why
students come 




to the adult school in the first place.  Also, I think the GED is a
pretty good 




test. One-third of  high school graduates cannot pass it. I don't know
what 




states you all come from, but where I am in California, if someone
passes the 




GED, that is a sign their skills are fairly high, high enough not to
spend time 




on much remediation in the community college. The army used to prefer
diploma 




grads to GED grads, not because the latter were less educated but
because 




diploma grads have more stick-to-itiveness. Perhaps this is true in
college also 




and accounts for the high college dropout rate of GED grads. 



















________________________________> From: djrosen at comcast.net> Date: Tue,
30 Oct 




2007 09:30:31 -0400> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Subject: [Assessment 1035]
GED, 




Creativity and Fast-tracking>> Mary Lynn wrote:> I think we owe to to
our 




students to get them to community college or training as fast as
possible. That 




is their goal and it is unfair for us to decide that they need
"creativity", a 




nebulous term at best. We must respect the goal of the student, and it
is 




paternalistic or maternalistic to do otherwise.> Creativity need not be 




nebulous. For example, here's a good definition from the Wikipedia:>
"Creativity 




(or creativeness) is a mental process involving the generation of new
ideas or 




concepts, or new associations between existing ideas or concepts." 




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity> I am sure you can see the
direct 




application of this kind of creativity to scoring high on the GED tests,
for 




example in writing a good essay, and perhaps in other areas. Equally
important 




-- for students who believe that GED preparation is the key to success
in 




post-secondary education and some kinds of job skills training --
generating new 




ideas or concepts and making associations between existing ideas or
concepts is 




essential for success.> Let me return to the context in which I raised
the issue 




of creativity, Marc Tucker's claim that if the U.S. is to be
competitive, if 




Americans are to have good jobs, they not only need strong basic skills
and some 




college education, but they also need to be creative, that this is the
cultural 




edge that leads to innovation and invention, that makes the American
economy 




strong, and will enable American workers to thrive. Some adult education





students, of course, don't care about that. They want the GED for other
reasons, 




and that's fine. Let them fast track to the test. Those who want GED 




prepararation for college and good jobs, however, will need more:
stronger 




academic skills to succeed in college, and -- if Tucker is right --
skills in 




the mental processes to generate new ideas or concepts, and new
associations 




between existing concepts, and perhaps other kinds of creativity.> Mary
Lynn, I 




would like to challenge the belief that we "owe [it] to our students to
get them 




to community college or training as fast as possible." This has not
produced 




good results for adult students whose goal is to succeed in college.
Only a very 




small percentage of adult GED holders actually succeed in college, often
because 




they lack the academic reading and writing skills, and numeracy
(especially 




algebra) that they need to enroll in regular (not developmental)
courses. 




Unfortunately way too many use up their college financial aide in
college 




developmental courses and then have to drop out before achieving a
certificate 




or degree. Many of these students will need to take the time to prepare
for 




college in their GED preparation program, not fast track to the GED
test.> David 




J. Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net> On Oct 29, 2007, at 3:27 PM, Mary Lynn
Simons 




wrote:> I am definitely not against teaching critical thinking skills;
critical 




thinking and the GED go hand in hand. I am against teachers wasting
student time 




with too much talking, both by students and by themselves, and calling
it 




"creativity". In order to be able to pass the tests, students must
grapple with 




the five subject areas. People will never improve reading, writing and 




mathematics unless they read, write, and do math! Lively discussions,
though 




interesting, can keep students from doing what they need to do to be
able to 




pass. Adult education students have busy lives and have little time to
get their 




GED. I think we owe to to our students to get them to community college
or 




training as fast as possible. That is their goal and it is unfair for us
to 




decide that they need "creativity", a nebulous term at best. We must
respect the 




goal of the student, and it is paternalistic or maternalistic to do
otherwise.>> 




From: andreawilder at comcast.net>> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:19:48 -0400>>
To: 




assessment at nifl.gov>> Subject: [Assessment 1022] Re: Assessment Digest,
Vol 25, 




Issue 33>>>> Words are so tricky, I don't really know what either of you
two 




(Mary>> Lynn) are talking about--if I were to observe your classes, what
would>> 




I see???>> would there be a real difference?>> Thanks.>>>> Andrea>> On
Oct 29, 




2007, at 9:13 AM, Carver, Mary-Lynn wrote:>>>>> Wow, I must say I
disagree with 




Mary Lynn Simons. Many ABE/GEDstudents>>> come in just wanting to pass
the test, 




but have no critical thinking>>> or transitional college skills. If we
don't 




help them understand and>>> acquire some of those skills, they will not
be able 




to succeed with>>> the transition to higher education. If not us, who? I
think 




it is one>>> of the first duties of any teacher to give students what
they need 




to>>> succeed in their class and beyond. I don't feel it is>>> 




paternal/maternalistic to help them set a course to success.>>>>>>
Thanks,>>> 




Mary Lynn Carver>>> ABE/GED Instructor>>> College of Lake County>>>
Building 4, 




Office 405>>> 19351 W. Washington Street>>> Grayslake, IL 60031>>> 




Phone:847/543-2677>>> mlcarver at clcillinois.edu>>> Fax:
847/543-7580>>>>>> 




"Blessed are they who laugh at themselves, for they shall be>>>
constantly 




amused" -- Unknown>>>>>> We now accept the fact that learning is a
lifelong 




process of keeping>>> abreast of change. And the most pressing task is
to teach 




people how>>> to learn. --Peter F. Drucker>>>>>>
________________________________>>>>>> 




From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of>>>
assessment-request at nifl.gov>>> 




Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 8:23 AM>>> To: assessment at nifl.gov>>> Subject:
Assessment 




Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33>>>>>>>>>>>> Send Assessment mailing list
submissions 




to>>> assessment at nifl.gov>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the
World Wide 




Web, visit>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>> or, via
email, 




send a message with subject or body 'help' to>>>
assessment-request at nifl.gov>>>>>> 




You can reach the person managing the list at>>>
assessment-owner at nifl.gov>>>>>> 




When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific>>>
than "Re: 




Contents of Assessment digest...">>>>>>>>> Today's Topics:>>>>>> 1.
[Assessment 




1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills>>> (David J. Rosen)>>> 2.
[Assessment 




1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> (Mary Lynn
Simons)>>> 3. 




[Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> (Andrea





Wilder)>>> 4. [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching Skills>>>
(David 




J. Rosen)>>> 5. [Assessment 1015] GED preparation and creativity (David
J.>>> 




Rosen)>>> 6. [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to
know!>>> 




(Donna Chambers)>>>>>>>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------->>

>>>> 





Message: 1>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:17:10 -0400>>> From: David J.
Rosen>>>> 




Subject: [Assessment 1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills>>> To: The 




Technology and Literacy Discussion List>,>>> The Adult Literacy
Professional 




Development Discussion List>>>>, The Assessment>>> Discussion List>>>>,
The 




Adult English Language Learners>>> Discussion>>> List>>>> Message-ID:

>>> 





Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;>>> 




format=flowed>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>>>> The Media Library of Teaching
Skills 




(MLoTS) project, a free Web->>> based library of short digital videos of
adult 




education classrooms>>> and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created
reading and 




numeracy>>> videos and over 30 other videos, including those from:>>>>>>
? 




NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy>>>
tutoring)>>> ? 




NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology),>>> ? OTAN
(integrating 




technology)>>> and>>> ? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what 




low-literate ESOL>>> learners can and cannot do with literacy)>>>>>> I
hope you 




will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or>>> tutoring
short 




videos in digital form, please let me know. I am>>> hoping that MLoTS
will 




become a large, "one-stop" collection for>>> adult literacy education
classroom 




videos.>>>>>> David J. Rosen>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




------------------------------>>>>>> Message: 2>>> Date: Sun, 28 Oct
2007 




01:01:15 +0000>>> From: Mary Lynn Simons>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1012]
Re: GED 




Discussion - what you need to know!>>> To: The Assessment Discussion
List>>>> 




Message-ID:>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252">>>>>>>>> 




Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them>>> 




accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically>>>
decide 




what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to>>> be
able to 




pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to>>> college or





training as fast as possible.>>>>>>>>>>>>
----------------------------------------> 




From:>>> Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27
Oct>>> 




2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion ->>>
what you 




need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential>>> in GED
programs, 




especially if> students are planning to go on to>>> college! Students
who pass 




the GED with> minimal ability to freely>>> think creatively, explore
abstract 




ideas, and> weigh options are>>> usually at a loss in the college
classroom. 




Most colleges> require>>> program elements such as "writing across the 




curriculum." As we> know,>>> writing requires abstract thought, the kind
adults 




need to develop.>>>>> Even basic college writing classes require
understanding 




and using>>>> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and
more.>>> 




Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement>>>
creative 




forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For>>>
students to 




truly> understand history, they must be able to vi>>> sualize different
time 




periods.> Symbolic thought translates into>>> statistics and math
classes in 




which> graphs, numbers and equations>>> are used to communicate ideas.
The list 




goes> on.>> Someone here or in>>> another posting made the remark that
students 




in a GED> class who are>>> not reading in class are not practicing
reading at 




all. If> the>>> instructor is writing on the board, if the students are
writing, 




if>>> the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In
terms of>>> 




more> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need>>>
to take 




that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline>>> that we
might 




not> get with GED students. But especially with students>>> who want to
pursue> 




higher education after earning the GED, we need to>>> have the time to
teach> 




them to think critically.>> Finally, I just>>> now ran across an essay
from 




Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a>>> long time but did in my past
lives. 




The essay demonstrates how>>>> creativity is used in the co>>> llege
classroom 




as well as what GED students can> expect in college>>> (though perhaps
not to 




this extent, depending on the> teacher and the>>> class).
http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> 




I'm a firm>>> believer in extensive transitional services for GED
students> 




planning>>> to attend college, and I think it's essential to have> 




communications>>> between public schools and college to make this happen
if we> 




want GED>>> students to succeed. Part of these discussions should
include>>>> 




creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine>>>
Mercurio 




Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County>>> Public
Schools> 




Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108>>>> work 703-791-8387>
fax 




703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>> From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>>> 




[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov%5DOn?> > Behalf Of David J.
Rosen>>>> Sent: 




Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion>>>
List> 




Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need>>> to
know!>>> 




Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by>>> creativity. Good 




question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a>>> means to an end --
that is, 




with creative teaching> approaches will>>> more students have more and
higher 




academic skills,> better test>>> scores? Or is creativity itself an end
-- that 




is, do we> want>>> students to be both academically prepared and
creative? Or> 




both? And>>> where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc
Tucker 




does,>>> that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I
would>>> 




put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and>>>
as an 




end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should>>>
provide 




students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that>>> are
strong enough 




to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking>>> skills (these may be





inseparable> from strong academic skills), and>>> the skills of creative





problem> solving.>> Since this is the>>> assessment list, let me ask
what are we 




measuring>>>> now adult secondary education programs?>> ? Perhaps
academic 




skills,>>>> at least through standardized tests> ? Are we measuring
critical>>>> 




thinking skills, and if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in>>>>
adult 




literacy education is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc>>>> Tucker
is right, 




we are not paying attention to one of the> greatest>>>> economic assets,
one of 




the historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree>>>> with Tucker and believe
that the 




nearly exclusive focus on high>>>>> stakes basic skills tests for K-12,
and the 




focus on only>>>> traditional> basic skills for the GED tests
disrespects 




important>>>> creative skills> like the ability to look at a problem
freshly 




and>>>> from different> perspectives, the ability to try out and
evaluate a>>>> 




range of> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image,>>>>
a 




moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language,>>>>
or> 




rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead>>>> to> 




disregard instructions or traditional paths of thin>>> king (what we
now> often 




describe as "thinking outside the box").>>>>> Are these goals that every
GED 




student has or should have. No. Should>>>> they be? Not necessarily. But
for 




students who see the GED or high>>>> school diploma as a way out of
poverty, as 




a stepping stone to stable>>>> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key
to open 




the door to>>>> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills
we 




should be>>>> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including
critical 




thinking>>>> and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David
J. 




Rosen>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge,
Toni F>>> 




wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching>>>
critical>> 




thinking skills which once our students know how to think>>> in a>>
critical 




thinking way they will be successful in achieving>>> their>> education
and other 




life goals. However, just like K-12>>> education,>> adult education is
captured 




on the high stakes spinning>>> wheel of>> accountability which stifle>>>
s 




creativity and teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>>>>>
BHCC>> Adult 




Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>>>>> From: 




assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- <mailto:assessment-?>

>>>>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf 





Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October>>> 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The





Assessment Discussion List>> Subject:>>> [Assessment 1001] Re: GED
Discussion - 




what you need to know!>>>>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the
enemy of 




success on standardized>>>>> test. We need look no further then those
who have 




been successful>> on>>> any type of test. We tend to use terms like
natuarally 




gifted,>> just>>> smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are
well>> 




rounded, enjoy>>> reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>>
"I 




don't know,>>> I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this
may be 




the>>> reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is
more>>> 




disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity.
Exposure>>> to the 




arts, banking industry, faculty>>> ,>> medicine, legal issues as part of
your 




everyday life tends to>>> offer>> more of an advantage when testing then
someone 




whose only>>> exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. My students 




participate>>> in a>> quite a few creative projects and those that "get
into it" 




tend>>> to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste
of>>> 




time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally>>>
frustrated>> 




when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they>>> would>>
like." 




Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>>>>> activities
that have 




to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>>>>> more creativity!>>>>
Shirley 




Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net
wrote:>>>> 




Colleagues,>>>> I am a>>> proponent of creativity in adult literacy
education 




-->> indeed in all>>> education. As Marc Tucker, President of the
National>> 




Center for>>> Education and the Economy, has said in a presention>>
recently to 




the>>> National Commission on Adult Literacy, http://>>>>>
www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html 




, the U.S. education system -->>>>>>> and he includes adult education,
cannot be 




competitive without>>>>> high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>>
But many 




GED teachers>>>>> and administrators believe that their>> students will
not pass 




the>>>>> GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to pass
the>>>>> 




test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many>>>>>
K-12 




teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe>>>>> creativity





distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be>>>>> the one
to raise 




this>> issue, but it's the key question on the>>>>> minds of many GED
teachers>> 




and administrators, so I invite the>>>>> panelists to address it.>>>> Is





creativity a distraction or is it>>>>> essential for success? Why?>>>>>>
David 




J. Rosen>>>>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original
message>>>>> 




---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>>>>>>
We've had 




several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>>>>>>> wanted to>>>
give a 




qu>>> ick reminder where you can get the information on this>>>
discussion.>>> 




For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>> suggested>>>
resources 




go to:>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>> 




07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ->>>
there 




were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>>>> 




http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please>>>
post 




your questions and also your own experiences to share>>>>> now!>>>>>> 




Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List>>>
Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




Marie Cora>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment
Discussion 




List>>> Moderator>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




From:>>> "Marie Cora">> To:>> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion -
what>>> 




you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi>>> 




everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past
day,>>> and so 




I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you>>> can get the
information>> on 




this discussion. For the full>>> announcement, information on>> guests,
and 




suggested resources go>>> to:>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>> 




07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ?>>>
there 




were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at:>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> 




assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and also
your 




own experiences to share>>> now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>





Assessment Discussion>>> List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie
Cora>>>>>>> 




marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List>>> 




Moderator>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>>>>> 




Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or>>>
change your 




subscription settings, please go to>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> 




Email delivered to>>> djrosen at comcast.net>> ------>>>
------------------------->> 




National Institute for Literacy>>>>> Assessment mailing list>> 




Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or>>> change your subscription
settings, 




please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
Email 




delivered to>>> msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------->> 




National>>> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>>>>> 




Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>>
settings, 




please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
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delivered to>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>
-------------------------------> 




National>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> 




Assessment at nifl.gov>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription
settings, 




please go to>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email 




delivered to>>> kgotthardt at comcast.net>>
-------------------------------> 




National>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> 




Assessment at nifl.gov>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription
settings>>> , 




please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email>>>
delivered 




to macsimoin at hotmail.com>>>>>>
_________________________________________________________________>>> 




Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?.>>>
Stop by 




today.>>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?>>> 




ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline>>>>>> ------------------------------>>>>>>
Message: 




3>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:24:28 -0400>>> From: Andrea Wilder>>>>
Subject: 




[Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> To: The





Assessment Discussion List>>>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain;





charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;>>> format=flowed>>>>>> Hi Mary
Lynn-->>>>>> One 




of my mantras for students, no matter the age, has been: "Don't>>> waste
their 




time." Is this what you are getting at?>>>>>> Andrea>>>>>> On Oct 27,
2007, at 




9:01 PM, Mary Lynn Simons wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> Community Colleges test
students 




when they enter and then teach them>>>> accordingly. It is not our job
to 




paternalistically/maternalistically>>>> decide what is best for our
students 




beyond what they need to know to>>>> be able to pass the test. We must
not hold 




them back. Let them get to>>>> college or training as fast as 




possible.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------->
From:>>>> 




Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct>>>>
2007 




09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion ->>>> what
you 




need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential>>>> in GED
programs, 




especially if> students are planning to go on to>>>> college! Students
who pass 




the GED with> minimal ability to freely>>>> think creatively, explore
abstract 




ideas, and> weigh options are>>>> usually at a loss in the college
classroom. 




Most colleges> require>>>> program elements such as "writing across the 




curriculum." As we> know,>>>> writing requires abstract thought, the
kind adults 




need to develop.>>>>>> Even basic college writing classes require
understanding 




and using>>>>> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and
more.>>>> 




Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement>>>>





creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more.
For>>>> 




students to truly> understand history, they must be able to
visualize>>>> 




different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics>>>>
and 




math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to>>>>
communicate 




ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another>>>> posting made
the 




remark that students in a GED> class who are not>>>> reading in class
are not 




practicing reading at all. If> the instructor>>>> is writing on the
board, if 




the students are writing, if the> students>>>> are taking practice
tests, they 




ARE reading. In terms of more>>>>> formalized, lengthier readings,
students will 




most likely need to take>>>> that> home. Yes, this requires a certain
amount of 




discipline that we>>>> might not> get with GED students. But especially
with 




students who>>>> want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED,
we need 




to>>>> have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I
just>>>> 




now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in
a>>>> long 




time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how>>>>>
creativity is 




used in the college classroom as well as what GED>>>> students can>
expect in 




college (though perhaps not to this extent,>>>> depending on the>
teacher and 




the class).>>>> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a
firm 




believer in>>>> extensive transitional services for GED students>
planning to 




attend>>>> college, and I think it's essential to have> communications 




between>>>> public schools and college to make this happen if we> want
GED>>>> 




students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include>>>>>
creativity 




used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine>>>> Mercurio 




Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County>>>> Public
Schools> 




Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108>>>>> work
703-791-8387> fax 




703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>> From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>>>> 




[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov%5DOn?> > Behalf Of David J.
Rosen>>>>> Sent: 




Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion>>>>
List> 




Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to>>>>
know!>>> 




Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by>>>> creativity. Good





question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a>>>> means to an end --
that 




is, with creative teaching> approaches will>>>> more students have more
and 




higher academic skills,> better test>>>> scores? Or is creativity itself
an end 




-- that is, do we> want>>>> students to be both academically prepared
and 




creative? Or> both? And>>>> where do critical skills fit in?>> I would
argue, as 




Marc Tucker does,>>>> that we need both high academic> skills and
creativity, 




and I would>>>> put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both
as a 




means and>>>> as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED)
programs 




should>>>> provide students with the> opportunity to have academic
skills 




that>>>> are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical
thinking>>>> 




skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and>>>>
the 




skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the>>>> assessment
list, 




let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary>>>> education
programs?>> 




? Perhaps academic skills, at least through>>>> standardized tests> ?
Are we 




measuring critical thinking skills, and>>>> if so how?> ? I am not aware
that 




anyone in adult literacy education>>>> is measuring> creative skills.>>
If Marc 




Tucker is right, we are not>>>> paying attention to one of the> greatest





economic assets, one of the>>>> historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree
with 




Tucker and believe that>>>> the nearly exclusive focus on high> stakes
basic 




skills tests for>>>> K-12, and the focus on only traditional> basic
skills for 




the GED>>>> tests disrespects important creative skills> like the
ability to 




look>>>> at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives, the
ability 




to>>>> try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to
represent>>>> 




an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or
other>>>> 




figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and>>>>
follow, 




but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of>>>>
thinking 




(what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the>>>> box").>> Are
these 




goals that every GED student has or should have.>>>> No. Should> they
be? Not 




necessarily. But for students who see the GED>>>> or high> school
diploma as a 




way out of poverty, as a stepping stone>>>> to stable> employment and 




self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door>>>> to> successful
post-secondary 




learning, these are the skills we should>>>> be> teaching and measuring:





academic skills, including critical>>>> thinking> and creativity.>> I
invite 




your comments on this.>> David J.>>>> Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On
Oct 26, 




2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge,>>>> Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to 




creativity do we mean>>>> teaching critical>> thinking skills which once
our 




students know how>>>> to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be





successful in>>>> achieving their>> education and other life goals.
However, 




just like>>>> K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high 




stakes>>>> spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles creativity
and>>>> 




teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult>>>>
Education & 




Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From:>>>>
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 




[mailto:assessment- <mailto:assessment-?> >> bounces at nifl.gov] On>>>>
Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: 




Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion
List>> 




Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re:>>>> GED Discussion - what you need to 




know!>>>>>>>> I agree that>>>> creativity is not the enemy of success on





standardized>> test. We need>>>> look no further then those who have
been 




successful>> on any type of>>>> test. We tend to use terms like
natuarally 




gifted,>> just smart, etc.>>>> If you speak to these folks they are
well>> 




rounded, enjoy reading,>>>> mvies, theater, they tend to use terms
like>> "I 




don't know, I just>>>> know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this
may be 




the reason for>>>> disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is
more 




disparity>>>> between socio economic background then>> ethnicity.
Exposure to 




the>>>> arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues as
part of>>>> 




your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when
testing>>>> then 




someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard.>>>> My
students 




participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those>>>> that "get
into 




it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that>>>> feel it is a
waste of 




time>> and they just want to "study for the GED">>>> are generally
frustrated>> 




when "all of their hard work does not pay>>>> off like they would>>
like." 




Creativity also leads to retention;>>>> especially those>> activities
that have 




to be completed in increments.>>>> Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>>
Shirley 




Ledet>>>> GED>>>> Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net 




wrote:>>>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult 




literacy>>>> education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker,
President 




of>>>> the National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in
a>>>> 




presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy,>>>> 




http://>> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S.>>>>
education>>>> system 




-->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive>>>> without
high>> 




academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED>>>> teachers and 




administrators believe that their>> students will not>>>> pass the GED
unless 




they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to>>>> pass the test, that 




creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster.>>>> (Many K-12
teachers,>> 




administrators or policy makers also believe>>>> creativity distracts>>
from 




passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be>>>> the one to raise this>>
issue, but 




it's the key question on the minds>>>> of many GED teachers>> and 




administrators, so I invite the panelists>>>> to address it.>>>> Is
creativity a 




distraction or is it essential for>>>> success? Why?>>>>>> David J.
Rosen>> 




djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>> -------------- Original message
---------------------->> 




From: "Marie>>>> Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> We've had several new
subscribers 




over the>>>> past day, and so I>> wanted to>>> give a quick reminder
where you 




can>>>> get the information on this>>> discussion. For the full 




announcement,>>>> information on guests, and>>> suggested resources go 




to:>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>>> 




07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ->>>>
there 




were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>>>>> 




http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please>>>>
post 




your questions and also your own experiences to share>>>>>> now!>>>>>> 




Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List>>>>
Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




Marie Cora>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment
Discussion 




List>>>> Moderator>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




From:>>>> "Marie Cora">> To:>> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion
- 




what>>>> you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>>
Hi>>>> 




everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past
day,>>>> and 




so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the>>>>
information>> 




on this discussion. For the full announcement,>>>> information on>>
guests, and 




suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>> 




07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday
?>>>> there 




were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at:>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> 




assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and
also your 




own experiences to share>>>> now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie
Cora>>>> 




Assessment Discussion>>>> List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie
Cora>>>>>>>> 




marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List>>>> 




Moderator>>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>>>>>> 




Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or>>>>
change 




your subscription settings, please go to>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> 




Email delivered to>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>
------------------------------->> 




National>>>> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>>>>>> 




Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>>>
settings, 




please go to>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
Email 




delivered to>>>> msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------->> 




National>>>> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>>>>>> 




Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>>>
settings, 




please go to>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
Email 




delivered to>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>
-------------------------------> 




National>>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> 




Assessment at nifl.gov>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription
settings, 




please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email





delivered to>>>> kgotthardt at comcast.net>>
-------------------------------> 




National>>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> 




Assessment at nifl.gov>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription
settings, 




please go to>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email 




delivered to>>>> macsimoin at hotmail.com>>>>>>>>
_________________________________________________________________>>>> 




Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?.>>>>
Stop by 




today.>>>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?>>>> 




ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline>>>> ------------------------------->>>>
National 




Institute for Literacy>>>> Assessment mailing list>>>>
Assessment at nifl.gov>>>> 




To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>>>> 




http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>> Email delivered to 




andreawilder at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------>>>>>> 




Message: 4>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:39:24 -0400>>> From: "David J. 




Rosen">>>> Subject: [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching
Skills>>> 




To: The Assessment Discussion List>>>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type:
text/plain; 




charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;>>> format=flowed>>>>>> ....and the Web
address 




for MLoTS is:>>>>>> http://www.mlots.org>>>>>> David J. Rosen>>> 




djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:17 PM, David J. Rosen





wrote:>>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>>>>>> The Media Library of Teaching Skills
(MLoTS) 




project, a free Web->>>> based library of short digital videos of adult 




education classrooms>>>> and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created
reading and 




numeracy>>>> videos and over 30 other videos, including those
from:>>>>>>>> ? 




NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy>>>>
tutoring)>>>> 




? NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology),>>>> ? OTAN
(integrating 




technology)>>>> and>>>> ? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what 




low-literate ESOL>>>> learners can and cannot do with literacy)>>>>>>>>
I hope 




you will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or>>>>
tutoring short 




videos in digital form, please let me know. I am>>>> hoping that MLoTS
will 




become a large, "one-stop" collection for>>>> adult literacy education
classroom 




videos.>>>>>>>> David J. Rosen>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




------------------------------->>>> National Institute for Literacy>>>> 




Assessment mailing list>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov>>>> To unsubscribe or
change 




your subscription settings, please go to>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>> 




Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




------------------------------>>>>>> Message: 5>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct
2007 




23:17:38 -0400>>> From: "David J. Rosen">>>> Subject: [Assessment 1015]
GED 




preparation and creativity>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>>>>
Message-ID: 





>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;

format=flowed>>>>>> 




Hello Andrea,>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2007, you wrote:>>>>>>> Has anybody yet
in this 




conversation defined 1. critical reading>>>> and 2. creativity?>>>>>>
Here's 




more on defining creativity. To begin with, it's quite>>> unlikely that
we will 




agree on a definition. There are more than 60>>> of them in the
psychological 




literature (Taylor, 1988), and as far>>> as I am aware there is no
standardized 




measurement instrument for>>> creativity. Some believe it is inherited;
some 




believe it can be>>> taught; some believe it can be nurtured or
encouraged. I 




believe that>>> some kinds of creativity can be taught or at least
nurtured and 




that>>> it involves a set of mental activities often closely aligned
with the>>> 




kind of mental activities we call critical thinking. Most of us would>>>
agree, 




I believe, that a key element is originality, but we might>>> differ in 




describing the paths to it. And it may look different in>>> different
contexts, 




in the sciences, in the arts, in technology, and>>> in the creative
problem 




solving of daily living.>>>>>> In the context in which I raised the
issue of 




creativity, I was>>> thinking of the application of new ideas, what some
would 




refer to as>>> innovation or ingenuity. It is this applied creativity
that I 




believe>>> Marc Tucker had in mind as something that Americans have 




historically>>> valued and excelled at, that has been an element of
American 




economic>>> success, and that may be undervalued or lost now in the
education>>> 




systems' rush toward performance on high stakes standardized
tests.>>>>>> Are 




adult literacy education students (including basic education,>>>
secondary 




education and ESOL) capable of this kind of creativity? If>>> so, should
we 




nurture it? I believe they are and that we should. In>>> many GED
programs I 




have seen, it is not nourished, usually not even>>> acknowledged in
program 




goals or objectives. And I have never seen>>> it measured. This
indicates to me 




that, as a field, we do not value>>> and support student creativity. I
agree 




with Marc Tucker that, if we>>> are interested in Americans' global 




competitiveness that we should>>> value creativity, and of course, there
are 




other good reasons to>>> nourish creativity.>>>>>> What do you think
about 




this?>>>>>>>>> * Taylor, C.W. (1988). "Various approaches to and
definitions 




of>>> creativity", in ed. Sternberg, R.J.: The nature of creativity:>>> 




Contemporary psychological perspectives. Cambridge University
Press.>>>>>> David 




J. Rosen>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------>>>>>> 




Message: 6>>> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 07:51:18 -0400>>> From: "Donna 




Chambers">>>> Subject: [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you
need to 




know!>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List">>>> Message-ID: >>>
Content-Type: 




text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";>>>
reply-type=original>>>>>> 




Mary Lynn,>>>>>> Your argument to push learners forward is a common
belief. I am 




not>>> suggesting to hold learners back, but if we are to prepare them
for>>> 




just>>> "passing the test" we are overlooking the "ASE" responsibility
of our>>> 




job.>>> Preparing the learner to possess the expected academic skills of
a>>> 




high>>> school student and be ready to transition to college level
academics>>> 




is in>>> the learners' best interest in respect to time and money.
Community>>> 




College should not have to remediate adult basic skills, and yet they>>>
do. 




If>>> the GED were to be more aligned with the tests required to
enter>>> 




community>>> college, such as the Accuplacer, the transition would be
smoother, 




but>>> it is>>> not. Preparation for the learners next steps, which
includes 




basic>>> and>>> secondary fundamental skills, is the responsibility of
Adult 




Literacy.>>>>>> Donna Chambers>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----->>>
From: 




"Mary Lynn Simons">>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List">>>> Sent:
Saturday, 




October 27, 2007 9:01 PM>>> Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED
Discussion - what 




you need to know!>>>>>>>>>>>> Community Colleges test students when they
enter 




and then teach them>>> accordingly. It is not our job to
paternalistically/maternalistically>>> 




decide>>> what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to
be 




able>>> to>>> pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to
college 




or>>> training as fast as possible.>>>>>>>>>>>>
----------------------------------------> 




From:>>> Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To:>>> assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat,
27 Oct 




2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject:>>> [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion -
what you 




need to know!>> David,>>> I>>> agree that creativity is essential in GED





programs, especially if>>>> students>>> are planning to go on to
college! 




Students who pass the GED with>>>> minimal>>> ability to freely think 




creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh>>> options are usually at
a loss 




in the college classroom. Most colleges>>>> require program elements
such as 




"writing across the curriculum." As>>> we>>>> know, writing requires
abstract 




thought, the kind adults need to>>> develop.>>>>> Even basic college
writing 




classes require understanding and using>>>> rhetorical patterns found in
the 




descriptive essay and more.>>> Humanities>>>> courses demand students to





understand and even implement creative>>> forms,>>>> figures of speech, 




figurative language, and more. For students to>>> truly>>>> understand
history, 




they must be able to visualize different time>>> periods.>>>> Symbolic
thought 




translates into statistics and math classes in which>>>> graphs, numbers
and 




equations are used to communicate ideas. The list>>> goes>>>> on.>>
Someone here 




or in another posting made the remark that students>>> in a>>> GED>
class who 




are not reading in class are not practicing reading at>>> all.>>> If>
the 




instructor is writing on the board, if the students are>>> writing,
if>>> the> 




students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of>>>
more>>>> 




formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to
take>>> 




that>>>> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we





might>>> not>>>> get with GED students. But especially with students who
want to 




pursue>>>> higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the
time 




to>>> teach>>>> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just now ran
across an 




essay>>> from>>> Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a long time but
did in 




my past>>> lives.>>> The essay demonstrates how> creativity is used in
the 




college>>> classroom as>>> well as what GED students can> expect in
college 




(though perhaps not>>> to this>>> extent, depending on the> teacher and
the 




class).>>> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm
believer 




in>>> extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to
attend>>> 




college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between>>>
public>>> 




schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED students to>>> 




succeed.>>> Part of these discussions should include> creativity used
and 




expected>>> in>>> every academic setting.>>> Katherine Mercurio
Gotthardt, ESOL 




Online>>> Instructor> Prince William County Public Schools> Adult
Education>>>> 




P.O. Box>>> 389> Manassas, VA 20108> work 703-791-8387> fax>>> 




703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> From:>>>
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 




[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov%5DOn?> >>>> Behalf>>> Of David J.
Rosen> Sent: 




Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The>>> Assessment Discussion
List> 




Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED>>> Discussion ->>> what you need to
know!>>> 




Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we>>> mean>>> by creativity.
Good 




question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a>>> means>>> to an end
-- that 




is, with creative teaching> approaches will more>>> students>>> have
more and 




higher academic skills,> better test scores? Or is>>> creativity>>>
itself an 




end -- that is, do we> want students to be both academically>>> prepared
and 




creative? Or> both? And where do critical skills fit>>> in?>> I>>> would
argue, 




as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic>>>> skills>>> and 




creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both> these>>>
catregories, 




both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary>>>> education>>>
(e.g. GED) 




programs should provide students with the> opportunity to>>> have>>>
academic 




skills that are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong>>> critical





thinking skills (these may be inseparable> from strong>>> academic>>>
skills), 




and the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is>>> the>>> 




assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult
secondary>>> 




education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through>>> 




standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and>>>
if so>>> 




how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is>>> 




measuring>>>> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not
paying>>> 




attention to>>> one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the
historic 




strengths of>>> the>>> U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that the
nearly 




exclusive focus>>> on>>> high> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and
the focus 




on only>>> traditional>>>> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects
important 




creative skills>>>> like>>> the ability to look at a problem freshly and
from 




different>>>> perspectives,>>> the ability to try out and evaluate a
range of> 




solutions, the ability>>> to>>> represent an idea with an image, a
moving> 




image, a drawing; a>>> metaphor or>>> other figurative language, or>
rhetoric; 




and the ability to understand>>> and>>> follow, but instead to>
disregard 




instructions or traditional paths of>>> thinking (what we now> often
describe as 




"thinking outside the>>> box").>> Are>>> these goals that every GED
student has 




or should have. No. Should>>>> they be?>>> Not necessarily. But for
students who 




see the GED or high> school>>> diploma as>>> a way out of poverty, as a
stepping 




stone to stable> employment and>>> self-sufficiency, as a key to open
the door 




to> successful>>> post-secondary>>> learning, these are the skills we
should be> 




teaching and measuring:>>> academic skills, including critical thinking>
and 




creativity.>> I>>> invite>>> your comments on this.>> David J. Rosen> 




djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On>>> Oct 26,>>> 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F





wrote:>>> When we are referring to>>> creativity do we mean teaching
critical>> 




thinking skills which once>>> our>>> students know how to think in a>>
critical 




thinking way they will be>>> successful in achieving their>> education
and other 




life goals.>>> However,>>> just like K-12 education,>> adult education
is 




captured on the high>>> stakes>>> spinning wheel of>> accountability
which 




stifles creativity and>>> teachers>>> teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni
Borge>>>> 




BHCC>> Adult Education &>>> Transitions>>> Program>>>> Boston,
MA>>>>>>>> From: 




assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>>> [mailto:assessment- <mailto:assessment-?>

>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf 





Of shirley ledet>>>>> Sent:>>> Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To:
The 




Assessment Discussion>>> List>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED
Discussion 




- what you need to>>> know!>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the
enemy of 




success on>>> standardized>> test. We need look no further then those
who have 




been>>> successful>> on any type of test. We tend to use terms like 




natuarally>>> gifted,>> just smart, etc. If you speak to these folks
they are 




well>>>>> rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms





like>>>>> "I>>> don't know, I just know stuff." Researchers have found
that>> 




this may>>> be>>> the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I
believe>> there 




is more>>> disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity.





Exposure>>> to>>> the arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal
issues 




as part>>> of>>> your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an
advantage when 




testing>>> then>>> someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and
study 




hard. My>>> students>>> participate in a>> quite a few creative projects
and 




those that "get>>> into>>> it" tend to>> do better in all subjects.
Those that 




feel it is a waste>>> of>>> time>> and they just want to "study for the
GED" are 




generally>>> frustrated>>>>> when "all of their hard work does not pay
off like 




they would>> like.">>> Creativity also leads to retention; especially
those>> 




activities that>>> have>>> to be completed in increments. Let's bring
on>> more 




creativity!>>>>>>> Shirley>>> Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>>
NHC-Carver>>>> 




djrosen at comcast.net>>> wrote:>>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of





creativity in adult literacy>>> education -->> indeed in all education.
As Marc 




Tucker, President of>>> the>>> National>> Center for Education and the
Economy, 




has said in a>>> presention>>>>> recently to the National Commission on
Adult 




Literacy, http://>>>>>>>> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. 




education system -->>>>> and he>>> includes adult education, cannot be 




competitive without high>> academic>>> standards AND creativity.>>>> But
many 




GED teachers and administrators>>> believe that their>> students will
not pass 




the GED unless they focus>>> on>>> skills and>> knowledge needed to pass
the 




test, that creativity is a>>>>> "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many
K-12 




teachers,>> administrators>>> or>>> policy makers also believe
creativity 




distracts>> from passing high>>> stakes>>> tests.) I hate to be the one
to raise 




this>> issue, but it's the key>>> question on the minds of many GED
teachers>> 




and administrators, so I>>> invite>>> the panelists to address it.>>>>
Is 




creativity a distraction or is it>>> essential for success? Why?>>>>>>
David J. 




Rosen>>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original>>> message 




---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi>>> everyone,>>>>>>>>>
We've 




had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted>>>
to>>>>>> 




give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this>>>>>> 




discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>>>>> 




suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>> 




07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ->>>
there>>> 




were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>>>> 




http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please>>>
post>>> 




your questions and also your own experiences to share>> now!>>>>>>>>> 




Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List>>>
Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




Marie Cora>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>>>> NIFL Assessment
Discussion 




List Moderator>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




From:>>> "Marie>>> Cora">> To:>> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED
Discussion - what 




you>>> need to>>> know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi 




everyone,>>>>>>>>>>> We?ve>>> had several new subscribers over the past
day, and 




so I>> wanted to>>> give a>>> quick reminder where you can get the
information>> 




on this discussion.>>> For>>> the full announcement, information on>>
guests, 




and suggested>>> resources go>>> to:>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>> 




07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ?
there 




were a couple ? you>>>>> can>>> catch up in the archives at: 




http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>>>>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>>
Please 




post your questions and also>>> your>>> own experiences to share
now!>>>>>>>> 




Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List 




Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>>>>
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> 




NIFL Assessment Discussion List>>> Moderator>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 




------------------------------->>>>> National Institute for Literacy>> 




Assessment mailing list>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or
change your 




subscription>>> settings,>>> please go to>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> 




Email>>> delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>>
------------------------------->>>>> 




National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>>>>> 




Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>>
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please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
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Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>>
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please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
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please go to> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email>>> 




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please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email>>>
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to macsimoin at hotmail.com>>>>>>
_________________________________________________________________>>> 




Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?.>>>
Stop 




by>>> today.>>>
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?>>> 




ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline>>> ------------------------------->>>
National 




Institute for Literacy>>> Assessment mailing list>>>
Assessment at nifl.gov>>> To 




unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>>> 




http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>> Email delivered to 




donnaedp at cox.net>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------>>>>>> 




------------------------------->>> National Institute for Literacy>>>
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mailing list>>> Assessment at nifl.gov>>> To unsubscribe or change your 




subscription settings, please go to>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>> 




End of Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33>>>
******************************************>>>>>>>>> 




------------------------------->>> National Institute for Literacy>>>
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mailing list>>> Assessment at nifl.gov>>> To unsubscribe or change your 




subscription settings, please go to>>>
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'em!> 




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