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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Amen, Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The question is what to do about it. At CAAL we are gearing up
to lobby Congress and states for more funding specifically targeted at
ESL. There are at least two problems in doing this. 1) The lack of a strong
push from the field for changes in policy that will increase ESL-specific
funding – as opposed to just asking for “more” for adult education
generally. The existing professional organizations do the best they can, but I
think they need more grass roots support to create policy change. Too many ESL
people seem to be suffering in silence. 2) There seems to be no clear idea of how
much funding would be enough. Simply asking for “more” is less
convincing than coming up with a number and justifying it. Can any of you
provide some inputs into this? How much do you spend per student (or per FTE) in
non-credit ESL each year? How much would you have to spend to increase key
outcomes (retention, learning gains, and transitions)to the levels possible by “the
state of the art” -- to do the best job you are capable of doing? And
what would be the components of that additional spending? These are not
hypothetical questions. We run into them whenever we advocate for “more”
for ESL. But it’s hard to justify any particular numbers. In fact, there
is no reliable data I know of about how much per student (or FTE) is now being spent,
on average. The numbers that float around indicate that program expenditures
vary from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand per student (or FTE) per year,
and there isn’t much information that correlates spending levels with
program outcomes. PLEASE, if any of you can tell us your present spending levels
and what you think you need (and why), post it here. You will help us and your
colleagues A LOT!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Beyond getting more total funding, the question is whether programs
can use the funding they have to get better results. Some programs effectively do
this by limiting the number of students they serve – spreading the
existing funds over fewer students, so that at least those served get the full
benefit of a first rate program with first rate teachers. Sometimes there are
policy barriers to this; sometimes not. Does this seem reasonable alternative
to any of you? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Another approach is to go hunting for “hidden subsidies.”
I believe that one advantage colleges have over other providers is that they
have “spare cash” or its equivalent available for programs that
they chose to subsidize. Sometimes this can entail outright distributions from “the
general fund” that augment state allocations. Sometimes it entails
ramping up the level of “in kind” services – such as guidance/counseling,
IT support, physical plant, etc. A few colleges we’ve seen have
established “scholarships” for ESL students who make transitions
(sometimes in the form of partial tuition waivers. Another tactic is to “classify”
non-credit ESL as one of the higher-reimbursement non-credit programs at the
college – where there are differentials in non-credit reimbursement (as
here are, for example in Illinois). Or classifying the upper levels of what
would normally be non-credit as “credit ESL.” Or making
part-time non-credit teachers eligible for more of the benefits (e.g.
healthcare) or training opportunities available to full time faculty (such as time
and funds for continuing education/professional development). Have any of you
made use of any of these tactics? Is there barriers to your doing so?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Finally, as Jodi mentions in her post, a few colleges charge for
non-credit ESL service. They aren’t allowed to charge for programs that
receive federal funds, but they can arguably charge for programs solely
supported by state funds, and this distinction can be made if the state allows.
While charging for non-credit ESL may seem heresy, and it isn’t possible
for all students to pay very much, we have been surprised by how many students
are willing to pay how much, rather than sit on waiting lists. Is this an
approach in policy or practice that should be expanded?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
assessment-bounces@nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Schneider, Jim<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Assessment Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1112] Re: No Questions or Comments?!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I have directed a downtown Adult Learning Center for our local
community college for 14 years. The #1 issue that inhibits the success of all
of our learners - ESL, ABE, or GED is funding and infrastructure. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Funding puts severe limits on the pay that is available for
instructors, the hours that classes can be offered, and the support services
that will be available to the learners. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>The reality of funding limitations on our program result in </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>- starting pay of $13.25 an hour, top pay of $15.25/hr -
which is not competitive with K-12 substitute teachers, let alone highly
qualified, instructors with any significant ESL and/or adult education
training. Our instructors work hard and are committed to the learning of their
students, but with an extremely limited well of knowledge training to draw
upon. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>- 4-10 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year also severely
limits the pool of interested instructors, as well as inhibiting the learning
opportunities of the students. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Similar to others who have posted - we find that the higher the
literacy/education of the ESL student upon enrollment, the more likely they are
to progress and transition to additional education/training - which isn't all
that different from the U.S. born ABE students. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>We do have staff who do assist our learners transition to our
short-term vocational & credit programs as one of several
responsibilities. The majority of ESL learners who have transitioned have done
so via short-term vocational programming - CNA, welding, etc. Those who
transitioned into a credit program were again those who were well educated in
their home country. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Bottom line is that adult literacy desperately needs a serious
commitment of funding, support and infrastructure from the federal, state and
local levels if meaningful learning is going to take place. The system does
very well considering the limitations placed upon it. Professional development
opportunities are meaningless if the system doesn't support professionals. There
isn't an NRS accountability measure that can create Cadillac-level
students with the current Yugo budgets. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Sincerely, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Jim Schneider</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> assessment-bounces@nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marie Cora<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 04, 2008 5:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Assessment@nifl.gov<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hello
everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I’m
so surprised! No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program’s effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? I was
very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: a lack of intensity
of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
professional development.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What
are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student from
advancing? What do you try to do about that?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please
post your questions and comments now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Marie
Cora<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Assessment
Discussion List Moderator<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Marie
Cora</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>NIFL
Assessment Discussion List Moderator</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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