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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a
factor in student performance:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more
highly educated students do better in terms of persistence, learning
gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education makes,
because too few programs track the level of prior education of their students
and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is, do you have any
data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes? Or any strong
impressions? And are there “cut points” in prior education that
seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely illiterate,
students who at least reached high school, high school graduates, college graduates,
etc. -- or is level of prior education pretty much of a continuum?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between
highly educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably
students with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower
level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by definition)
in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes math. Why isn’t
this enough? In your experience, does the “gap” exist at these
levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be desirable to
place less highly educated students in separate classes from those with more
education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some
programs have tried “native language literacy” or the Spanish GED.
What has been the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other
ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of “bi-lingual education”
that should be tried? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas.
Because the people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large numbers
of undocumented people to “learn English” (whatever that means),
ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education in
their native countries and too little money to serve them. So anyone who
has any ideas about how to bridge this “education gap” could help
us a lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Forrest Chisman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Vice President<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>CAAL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
assessment-bounces@nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Tina_Luffman@yc.edu<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Assessment Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi Jackie,</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thank you for
this information. I believe this research must be what my former Spanish
teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education in the K-12 school
system.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Tina</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Tina Luffman<br>
Coordinator, Developmental Education<br>
Verde Valley Campus<br>
928-634-6544<br>
tina_luffman@yc.edu</span> <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"Jackie
Coelho" <jackie.coelho@gmail.com></span></b><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent by:
assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>02/05/2008
11:13 AM</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please respond to<br>
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment@nifl.gov></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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</td>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"The
Assessment Discussion List" <assessment@nifl.gov></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>cc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[Assessment
1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hi Tina,</span></tt><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
<tt>This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in</tt><br>
<tt>favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in</tt><br>
<tt>the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation</tt><br>
<tt>in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second</tt><br>
<tt>or third language.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
written.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Jackie</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman@yc.edu <Tina_Luffman@yc.edu> wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>> Hi list members,</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
that of</tt><br>
<tt>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
they</tt><br>
<tt>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
quickly and</tt><br>
<tt>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
country or</tt><br>
<tt>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much</tt><br>
<tt>> advancement.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
tribes</tt><br>
<tt>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
literacy</tt><br>
<tt>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
tried</tt><br>
<tt>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their
own</tt><br>
<tt>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The</tt><br>
<tt>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
easier</tt><br>
<tt>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this
is</tt><br>
<tt>> something deserving more research.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Tina</tt><br>
<tt>> Tina Luffman</tt><br>
<tt>> Coordinator, Developmental Education</tt><br>
<tt>> Verde Valley Campus</tt><br>
<tt>> 928-634-6544</tt><br>
<tt>> tina_luffman@yc.edu</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> -----assessment-bounces@nifl.gov wrote: -----</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment@nifl.gov></tt><br>
<tt>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett@sanford.org></tt><br>
<tt>> Sent by: assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</tt><br>
<tt>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM</tt><br>
<tt>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or</tt><br>
<tt>> Comments?!</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed</tt><br>
<tt>> Warning: (not named).</tt><br>
<tt>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt"
attachment(s) for more</tt><br>
<tt>> information.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
years)</tt><br>
<tt>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
particularly if</tt><br>
<tt>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if
at</tt><br>
<tt>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
would</tt><br>
<tt>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
student</tt><br>
<tt>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
he/she</tt><br>
<tt>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
try to</tt><br>
<tt>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
concept</tt><br>
<tt>> in a second language.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
play a</tt><br>
<tt>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
from</tt><br>
<tt>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
classes).</tt><br>
<tt>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
It's</tt><br>
<tt>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
teachers.</tt><br>
<tt>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
encouraging me</tt><br>
<tt>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
we're</tt><br>
<tt>> making some progress.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> ________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> From: assessment-bounces@nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora</tt><br>
<tt>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM</tt><br>
<tt>> To: Assessment@nifl.gov</tt><br>
<tt>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Hello everyone,</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> I'm so surprised! No one has anything to comment on regarding
your</tt><br>
<tt>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? I was
very</tt><br>
<tt>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
that Dr.</tt><br>
<tt>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: a lack of
intensity of</tt><br>
<tt>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
for</tt><br>
<tt>> professional development.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
student</tt><br>
<tt>> from advancing? What do you try to do about that?</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Please post your questions and comments now.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Thanks!</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Marie Cora</tt><br>
<tt>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Marie Cora</tt><br>
<tt>> marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com</tt><br>
<tt>> <</tt></span><a href="mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com"><tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com></span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator</tt><br>
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<tt>> National Institute for Literacy</tt><br>
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<tt>> -------------------------------</tt><br>
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<tt>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho@gmail.com</tt><br>
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<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>-------------------------------</tt><br>
<tt>National Institute for Literacy</tt><br>
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