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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Jodi:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Just so other people can see how we get misunderstand each other
and still work together…..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Really, my question was whether, given the importance of prior
education, do any programs provide separate classes for students with higher
prior education (by any definition)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Overall, in the research we conducted together, I was struck by
how much the colleges we visited talked about the importance of prior
education, and how little they did about it in designing their programs. For
example, most of them did not include level of prior education in their student
records. Thus teachers may or may not have known what the prior education of
particular students was. Likewise, I’m quite sure that CCSF has no idea
what the prior education of students in their two-level courses are. Anyone can
take these courses, and the college says students are sometimes encouraged to
do so if they have an interest in credit studies or in advancing rapidly for
some other reason – which may or may not indicate level of prior
education. Likewise, the Lake County intensive transition program is open to
any intermediate level student who wants to enroll – although when we
studied it there weren’t enough slots for everyone who wanted to enter
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So, I guess my question stands. Recognizing the importance of
prior education, do any of you do anything (other than Spanish literacy/GED) to
compensate for it by making progress easier for both more highly educated and
less highly educated students? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Forrest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Jodi Crandall
[mailto:crandall@umbc.edu] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Forrest Chisman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'The Assessment Discussion List'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
or Comments?!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Forrest,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'm not sure yet that I know the question, but here goes ...<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I don't know of community college programs now that continue
to separate out literacy level students after the actual literacy class.
Does anyone else><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>When I mentioned higher levels of prior education, in
this context, I didn't mean college-educated students, but those with closer to
a high school education n their own countries. These are the students
that we used to believe were the main students that we served, not the literacy
level students who are increasingly being enrolled in our classes.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>For highly educated individuals, those with college degrees
in their own countries, most of the programs that I know seek to transition
these students into more academic ESL programs at the intermediate
levels. In fact, some community colleges, like the English for Academic
Purposes College of Lake County, that we studied, created a seamless transition
from noncredit to credit academic ESL courses by working backwards from the
credit expectations and then aligning the intermediate level noncredit ESL to them. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>City College, as you know, provides accelerated ESL classes
(two terms in one) for more educated students, since they are likely to be able
to make faster progress.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jodi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Feb 6, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Forrest Chisman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jodi,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I think you misunderstood me (as usual) :-). My question
wasn't about<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>separating out literacy level students. I agree most
programs do that. My<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>question was about the other practice from the 1980's you
mention --<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>separate classes for students with higher levels of prior
education ABOVE<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>the literacy level.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Forrest<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>From: assessment-bounces@nifl.gov [<a
href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]
On<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To: The Assessment Discussion List<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
Questions or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jackie and Forrest,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I think most large programs separate literacy level students
from others<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>who are at a beginning level.<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>I know that back in the 1980s when
there<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges
created<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into
intermediate<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>levels, with one set of classes for students with limited
literacy or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>prior schooling and another for more educated students.<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>The reason was<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>that the students with less education made slower progress.<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>Some of this<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English
(requiring<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>literacy), but it is also because students need to become
accustomed to<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil,
and a wide<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>range of basic skills that come with being a student in a
class.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Those of you who have separate classes for those who need
literacy: <span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Can<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in
the same<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>class:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Can
you let us know how you manage?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>What
are some ways in which<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>you accommodate both sets of needs?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jodi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Forrest,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>I like
the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>background<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>and those without. These two groups have such different
needs. Having both<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the
needs of either<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>group well and I find that often the stronger students
dominate the class,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor
does not keep<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>up<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they
often become<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the
instructor<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>keeps<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and
they get<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>frustrated.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>I think that
literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jackie<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <<a
href="mailto:forrest@crosslink.net">forrest@crosslink.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>To all of you
who commented on level of prior education as a factor in<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>student performance:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that
more highly<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>educated students do better in terms of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>persistence, learning gains,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect
this.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Regrettably<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>we found very little hard data about how much difference
prior education<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>makes, because too few programs track the level of prior
education of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>their<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do
this? That is,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>do<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior
education makes?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>any strong impressions? And are there "cut points"
in prior education<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>that<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
completely<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>illiterate,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>students who at least reached high school, high school
graduates,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>college<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>graduates, etc. --<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>or
is level of prior education pretty much of a<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>continuum?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap
between highly<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>educated students and those with less prior education?
Presumably<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>students<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>with very low levels of education are more likely end up in
the lower<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>level<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are
(almost by<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>definition)<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>in
the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>math.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the
"gap" exist at these<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would
it be<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>desirable<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>to place less highly educated students in separate classes
from those<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>with<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for
them<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language
literacy" or the<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with
these<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL
equivalent of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>"bi-lingual<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>education" that should be tried?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas.
Because the<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>people who study immigration tell us that the level of
education of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform
mandates large<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>numbers of undocumented people to "learn English"
(whatever that means),<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>ESL<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>programs may be swamped with students who have very little
education in<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>their native countries and too little money to serve them.<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>So anyone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>who<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>has any ideas about how to bridge this "education
gap" could help us a<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>lot<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion
list.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Forrest Chisman<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Vice President<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>CAAL<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*From:* assessment-bounces@nifl.gov [<a
href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*On<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Behalf Of *<a href="mailto:Tina_Luffman@yc.edu">Tina_Luffman@yc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*To:* The Assessment Discussion List<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
Questions<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Jackie,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thank you for this information. I believe this research must
be what my<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for
bilingual<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>education in<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>the K-12 school system.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tina<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tina Luffman<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Coordinator, Developmental Education<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Verde Valley Campus<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>928-634-6544<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>*"Jackie
Coelho" <<a href="mailto:jackie.coelho@gmail.com">jackie.coelho@gmail.com</a>>*<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sent by: <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>02/05/2008 11:13 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Please respond to<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The Assessment Discussion List <<a
href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>"The Assessment Discussion List" <<a
href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>cc<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Subject<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Tina,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This has been researched already and is the basis for the
arguement in<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented
in<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>the best way. For many years people have known that a good
foundation<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning
in a second<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>or third language.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that
are not<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>written.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jackie<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On 2/5/08, <a href="mailto:Tina_Luffman@yc.edu">Tina_Luffman@yc.edu</a>
<<a href="mailto:Tina_Luffman@yc.edu">Tina_Luffman@yc.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi list members,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is
similar to<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>that<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in
the country<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>they<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>came from in their native language, they tend to advance
rather<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>quickly<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from
their<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>country<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not
make much<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>advancement.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This experience relates well to research done among Native
American<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>tribes<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first
taught<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than
those who<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>tried<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>to learn literacy skills in English without that background
in their<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>own<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning
Spanish. The<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish
were much<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>easier<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English.
Perhaps this<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>something deserving more research.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tina<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tina Luffman<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Coordinator, Developmental Education<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Verde Valley Campus<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>928-634-6544<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:-----assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">-----assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>
wrote: -----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <<a
href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>From: "Gail Burnett" <<a
href="mailto:gburnett@sanford.org">gburnett@sanford.org</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sent by: <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Warning: This message has had one or more attachments
removed<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Warning: (not named).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt"
attachment(s) for<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>more<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>information.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In our small adult education program, my experience (just
about three<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>years)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>particularly if<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the
slowest, if<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>at<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first
language. I<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>would<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of
time; a<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>student<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>who works full-time and is exhausted often will still
succeed because<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>he/she<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What
we do is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>try<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>to<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's
a hard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>concept<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in a second language.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the
research don't<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>play<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>a<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers
(transitioned<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>from<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather
than<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>classes).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
advancement.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>It's<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>hard for small adult education programs to get highly
skilled ESL<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>teachers.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>encouraging<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>me<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I
think<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>we're<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>making some progress.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it
right?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>From: <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>
on behalf of Marie Cora<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To: <a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hello everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'm so surprised!<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>No
one has anything to comment on regarding your<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>I was very<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of
issues<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>that<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Dr.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:<span
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<p class=MsoNormal>instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
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<p class=MsoNormal>What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit
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<p class=MsoNormal>from advancing?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>What
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<p class=MsoNormal>Marie Cora<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Professor, Education Department<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
ESOL/Bilingual<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Education<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>ph:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>410-455-2313/2376<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>fax: <span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>410-455-8947/1880<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>email: <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>www.umbc.edu/llc/<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>www.umbc.edu/esol/<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>University of Maryland Baltimore County<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
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color:black'>Baltimore, MD 21250<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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