<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault
{mso-style-name:msochpdefault;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.htmlpreformattedchar0
{mso-style-name:htmlpreformattedchar;}
span.apple-style-span
{mso-style-name:apple-style-span;}
span.emailstyle21
{mso-style-name:emailstyle21;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle25
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>God bless you. But surely we deserve a real system to achieving
this – one that doesn’t rely on the individual initiative of great people.
Because a lot of great people just can’t devote the time or don’t have the “contacts.”
Until we get beyond where we are, Adult Education will consistently
sub-optimize, and will be a “system” in name only. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Forrest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
assessment-bounces@nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>jhalaesl@aol.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 08, 2008 6:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> assessment@nifl.gov<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1217] Re: (no subject)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Forrest
- you are on target with your comments about the CBO-college connection, or
lack thereof. And yes many fall through the cracks. Hence my previous comments
about having contacts. This is not a systematized network of contacts (I'm a
tad cynical about that route), but those in one's personal/professional
circle--the people who can tell us when/if the system can be flexed, or not. <br>
<br>
Without those contacts it would be very difficult for me to refer ESL students
from our CBO program (FYI much time and effort spent ensuring that our programs
are high-quality, accountable, and learner-driven) to other providers,
including the college. Our students place a great deal of trust in our
willingness and ability to help them get the education they need at a price/time/place
that works. When I make a referral, it is a personal one, preceded by my phone
call/e-mail to the contact. And always including my/their follow-up.<br>
<br>
<br>
Fortunately the people on the other end of the referral know to refer back to
me if their program is not suitable.<br>
Joanne</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest@crosslink.net><br>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment@nifl.gov><br>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 5:08 pm<br>
Subject: [Assessment 1208] Re: (no subject)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_ff05aac0-7ff2-4ef8-8993-14128b24533c">
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Joanne,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m interested in the question Jodi asks too. As I understand
it, local literacy councils have been on the wane, but I hope I’m wrong about
that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m aware that CBO’s are the federal/state grant providers in
some areas, although nationwide (according to DOE surveys anyway) they serve a
far smaller percentage of students than do LEA’s and colleges. I mean them no
disrespect. I’ve seen some that were highly professionalized and provided
superb service, and some that didn’t -- just like colleges and LEA’s </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>!
It’s the quality of the provider, not the type of provider that matters. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What interests me more is your reference to the implicit
“division of labor” between CBO’s and colleges or LEA’s you mention. I think
that in some areas this is fairly common: colleges or LEA’s refer the lowest
level students to CBO’s (with or without the necessary funding). In most of the
cases where I’ve seen this, it doesn’t seem to work out very well. There isn’t
the coordination/collaboration to which you allude. In fact, I’ve sometimes had
the impression that it’s a way of dumping the hardest to serve students on
CBO’s. Too often these students become “out of sight and out of mind.” And
because the students ARE the hardest to serve, low success rates make the CBO’s
look bad, compared to the other providers – unfairly. I’ve tried to chase down
information about this model in the past, but I haven’t been very successful. I
would love to know if any of the rest of you have experience with it, and how
well you think it works. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Forrest </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a> [<a
href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov?">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jodi Crandall<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 08, 2008 1:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Assessment Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1191] Re: (no subject)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Joanne,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Bravo! Making connections with such limited funds is
critical. I remember when major cities had councils which
coordinated literacy/ESL services. I wonder if any of you have some kind
of even an informal network that meets to discuss the most efficient and
effective ways to use the minimal funds that are available.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jodi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:50 AM, <a
href="mailto:jhalaesl@aol.com">jhalaesl@aol.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Not always
the reason for an LEA-to-local college turnover of those federal and state
adult ed funds<br>
In my experience, it has simply and sadly been the result of limited resources
and insufficient funds.<br>
And in some areas a CBO (not an LEA) manages those grant programs, offers
classes free to the lowest literacy ESL/ESOL students, and is never able to
fully bridge the gap between very part-time instruction and college.<br>
<br>
One key element to our small successes has been having colleagues in each
institution (local college, LEA, CBO, gov't DOE/DOL) who understand the
dynamics and the gaps. Granted, most are still limited by the systems in which
they work and to which they must be accountable. But there is still much to be
said for permitting ourselves some case-by-case thinking, making those simple
phone calls, and asking.<br>
<br>
Joanne Hala<br>
<i><span style='color:#339999'>Literacy Serrvices<br>
Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.</span></i></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 2.0pt;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>’ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas were
the LEA runs the federal/state adult education ESL grant program and has
asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it’s an
“adult” program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Forrest Chisman <<a href="mailto:forrest@crosslink.net">forrest@crosslink.net</a>><br>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <<a href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>><br>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42 am<br>
Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_518ed1d7-9c3b-4b2c-853b-77d6172e3f90">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Kevin,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It’s a
very interesting model. I’m not surprised that your students are motivated for
college, because they’ve signed up for a college prep track! What worries me
are the limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have
college potential. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I understand now why you don’t have the resources to operate
a more comprehensive program. I’ve heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state adult education ESL grant
program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has
concluded it’s an “adult” program). Have there been any rumblings of that in
your area?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Best of luck in your good work.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Forrest <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>
[<a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov?">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hinkle, Robert<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id=idOWAReplyText16615>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed
into our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come
to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those students
rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of specific companies
as opposed to the community at large. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Our ESL program is within an academic department in the
college (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL
students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We
do not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer
students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although
in the scheme of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it
may still be out of reach of many students. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are
limited by a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college
budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members
(including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be
a problem with our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A
growing problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between
high schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to give
them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap between
the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that a high
school diploma equates to college readiness.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have
enough time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of
the options for students are. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id=idSignature30909>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Kevin <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>
on behalf of Forrest Chisman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'The Assessment Discussion List'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Dear Kevin,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your
program. Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable
in stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges
to elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does
prompt the concern about whether other programs in the college’s service area
are providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a
high enough quality to “feed” the college program – as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue. Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
“make” pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do it.
Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for federal/state
grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does your college receive
these funds to support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported
financially?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals
and understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging
students to expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example,
many immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem
seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources to provide very
much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I wonder if anyone has
any solutions to THAT issue. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting
model. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Forrest <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>
[<a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov?">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hinkle, Robert<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1148] (no subject)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id=idOWAReplyText56074>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi All,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I have been reading most of the discussion comments and
wanted to address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our
program. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New
Jersey. Our program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language
backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL
instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5
levels of academic ESL preparation divided into three courses -
Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening). Our highest level
Reading/Writing course gives successful students 6 elective credits that count
towards RVCC graduation, but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are
15 weeks. If a student misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw
that student (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At
the moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register for a
course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of
course, indicates that students who begin a class late have a much higher rate
of failure than those who begin on time. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In our program, we have three full-time faculty and
approximately 16-18 adjuncts. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we
are a small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time
finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our
students have signalled their intention to obtain a college degree.
Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic English skills although
there is often a long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we
use the Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests
at the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers
usually progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is
students who graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English
skills - and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the
strategies that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12
and community colleges so that students get the language skills they need
before they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills
remain more BICS than CALP. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy
issues should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes
complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my experience,
students with low level literacy skills become frustrated and are not
ultimately successful - probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable
with the idea that they are spending hard-earned money when the chances for
success in ESL are minimal. We advise students that the program is
academically-oriented; often they have little understanding of what that means.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered
so that students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at
least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little experience
handling language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write
and converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to
deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I think the measure of success should be based on a
realistic assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of
the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental
goals so that success could build. If the goals for students with low literacy
levels are not carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter
more failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The
more we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that
they can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately,
we have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Apologies for the length.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id=idSignature58192>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_4_518ed1d7-9c3b-4b2c-853b-77d6172e3f90"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>-------------------------------</span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white;-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial;
-moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;-moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;
background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:
50%'><tt><span style='color:black'>National Institute for Literacy</span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white;-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial;
-moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;-moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;
background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:
50%'><tt><span style='color:black'>Assessment mailing list</span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white;-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial;
-moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;-moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;
background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:
50%'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white;-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial;
-moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;-moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;
background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:
50%'><tt><span style='color:black'>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to </span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white;-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial;
-moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;-moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;
background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:
50%'><tt><span style='color:black'><a
href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white;-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial;
-moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;-moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;
background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:
50%'><tt><span style='color:black'>Email delivered to <a
href="mailto:jhalaesl@aol.com">jhalaesl@aol.com</a></span></tt><o:p></o:p></pre></div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>More new features than ever. Check out the new <a
href="http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003"
target="_blank">AOL Mail</a>!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>National Institute for Literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>Assessment mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please
go to <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>Email delivered to <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Professor and Director</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>University of Maryland Baltimore County</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>1000 Hilltop Circle</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Baltimore, MD 21250</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>tel: 410-455-2313</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>fax: 410-455-8947</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>eml: <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-top:7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_4_ff05aac0-7ff2-4ef8-8993-14128b24533c"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>-------------------------------</span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span
style='color:black'>National Institute for Literacy</span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span
style='color:black'>Assessment mailing list</span></tt><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span
style='color:black'><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span
style='color:black'>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to </span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span
style='color:black'><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment"
target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span
style='color:black'>Email delivered to <a href="mailto:jhalaesl@aol.com">jhalaesl@aol.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre></div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-top:7.5pt;text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:7.5pt'>More new features than ever. Check
out the new <a
href="http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003"
target="_blank">AOL Mail</a>!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>