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<DIV>Mary Jane,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you want your students to get a better grasp on grammatical terminology
I strongly recommend "Gramática Española para Estudiantes de Inglés" by Anna I
Levenson. It not only gives the terminology in both English and Spanish, it
gives examples from both languages. It is published by Olivia and Hill
Press <A href="http://www.oliviahill.com">www.oliviahill.com</A>
Most Spanish-speaking students that I have had, inlcluding some university
graduates, have never studied the grammar of their own language. They also have
a book, "English Grammar for Students of Spanish," which is quite useful for ESL
teachers who need a comparison of the two languages, particularly for problem
analysis. They have similar materials for other languages that all look good.
They are also quite readable. One doesn't need a docturate in linguistics to
read them!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>By the way. I teach all of the major verb tenses at one time and find that
a holistic view is better than one or two tenses at a time. This even works for
me at lower levels. My wife, who loves grammar, thinks I'm crazy. That's
O.K.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Script MT Bold" size=5>Ted</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.tedklein-ESL.com">www.tedklein-ESL.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=forrest@crosslink.net href="mailto:forrest@crosslink.net">Forrest
Chisman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=assessment@nifl.gov
href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">'The Assessment Discussion List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:00
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Assessment 1168] Re: {Dangerous
Content?} RE: No Questionsor Comments?!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Mary
Jane,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks
for this input. I gather that all of your classes mix students with different
levels of higher education. Is that right? If so, how do you manage to find
the time (or manage the class) so that you can provide this extra help to
students with low levels of prior education? About how many hours/week do your
classes meet? Also, I think we’d all like to hear some examples of the
cooperation and teamwork you mention, and its results. This seems to be an
important, but too little documented theme.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Forrest
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
assessment-bounces@nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov] <B>On Behalf
Of </B>Mary Jane Jerde<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:31
PM<BR><B>To:</B> The Assessment Discussion List; Jodi
Crandall<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Assessment 1164] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
Questions or Comments?!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I was going to write a very similar message based on my
experience working under Barbara Denman at the erstwhile refugee program in
Prince George's County, Maryland. <BR><BR>Now that I work in a community
college with ESL classes that span the lowest level ESL and academic
experience to the higher levels of college credit classes, my experience has
grown. The principles of both cooperation and teamwork in learning and
separation by level still hold true. Students benefit from knowing that they
need to help each other. It's part of our culture, surprise, surprise. The
institution where I work has six levels of class for the various language
skills, so there's lots of separation by level. <BR><BR>What I have found
myself doing with high beginning students and intermediates with less
education in their home countries is preparing them for the grammatical terms
that will come their way if they continue to take ESL classes. I also work
diligently with them to have a firm grasp of basic English grammar, especially
verbs. This will help them at work or if they decide to begin ABE classes,
where the grammar focus is not normally on their kind of grammar issues.
<BR><BR>Mary Jane Jerde<BR>ESL Instructor<BR>Howard Community
College<BR><BR><B><I>"Sadan, Noa"
<Noa.Sadan@montgomerycollege.edu></I></B> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program
(Montgomery<BR>College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no
English,<BR>in class with literacy level students. It was certainly
difficult<BR>meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive
20-hours/week<BR>program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the
groups.<BR>Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading
and<BR>writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language.
The<BR>Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I
could<BR>read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I
wish<BR>I could speak like you."<BR><BR>All this ended with a slightly
different solution. The Refugee Center,<BR>then under the direction of Donna
Kinerney, divided that school day into<BR>separate Listening,Reading and
"Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all<BR>skills, plus the introduction to
the American workplace. This model was<BR>in place when we began to get World
English speakers who were not<BR>literate. It provided a solution in which
they could study in a<BR>literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in
a higher level<BR>Listening and Homeroom class. <BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: assessment-bounces@nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov]<BR>On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi)
Crandall<BR>Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM<BR>To: The Assessment
Discussion List<BR>Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
Questions or<BR>Comments?!<BR><BR>Jackie and Forrest,<BR><BR>I think most
large programs separate literacy level students from others<BR>who are at a
beginning level. I know that back in the 1980s when there<BR>were large
refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created<BR>parallel ESL
classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate<BR>levels, with
one set of classes for students with limited literacy or<BR>prior schooling
and another for more educated students. The reason was<BR>that the students
with less education made slower progress. Some of<BR>this is undoubtedly due
to the way in which we teach English (requiring<BR>literacy), but it is also
because students need to become accustomed to<BR>attending classes, learning
to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide<BR>range of basic skills that come
with being a student in a class.<BR><BR>Those of you who have separate classes
for those who need literacy:<BR>Can<BR>you tell us what kind of classes or
program you provide?<BR><BR>Those who teach both literacy and more educated
learners in the same<BR>class: Can you let us know how you manage? What are
some ways in which<BR>you accommodate both sets of needs?<BR><BR>Jodi<BR>>
Forrest,<BR>> I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
<BR>> background and those without. These two groups have such different
<BR>> needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to
<BR>> meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the
stronger<BR><BR>> students dominate the class, and their drive push the
teacher forward.<BR><BR>> If the instructor does not keep up with the
students who are learning <BR>> at a faster rate, they often become
frustrated and leave or mentally <BR>> check out. However, if the
instructor keeps up with those students, <BR>> the others are unable to
keep up and they get frustrated.<BR>> I think that literacy could perhaps
be separated out. And regardless<BR><BR>> of how you do it, well-trained
instructors are essential.<BR>> Jackie<BR>><BR>><BR>> On 2/5/08,
Forrest Chisman wrote:<BR>>><BR>>> To all of you who commented on
level of prior education as a factor <BR>>> in student
performance:<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Everyone with
whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more <BR>>> highly
educated students do better in terms of persistence, learning<BR><BR>>>
gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect
<BR>>> this.<BR>>> Regrettably<BR>>> we found very little
hard data about how much difference prior <BR>>> education makes,
because too few programs track the level of prior <BR>>> education of
their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of<BR><BR>>> you
do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference <BR>>>
level of prior education makes?<BR>>> Or<BR>>> any strong
impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education<BR><BR>>>
that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely
<BR>>> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high
school <BR>>> graduates, college graduates, etc. -- or is level of prior
education<BR><BR>>> pretty much of a
continuum?<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> More importantly,
what can programs DO to narrow the gap between <BR>>> highly educated
students and those with less prior education? <BR>>> Presumably students
with very low levels of education are more likely<BR><BR>>> end up in
the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning <BR>>> levels)
why are (almost by<BR>>> definition) in the business of teaching basic
literacy and sometimes<BR><BR>>> math.<BR>>> Why isn't this
enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at <BR>>> these levels
too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it<BR><BR>>> be
desirable to place less highly educated students in separate <BR>>>
classes from those with more education and adjust the <BR>>>
curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have
<BR>>> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has
been <BR>>> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any
other ideas? <BR>>> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual
education" that <BR>>> should be
tried?<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> It seems to me that we
need to come up with better ideas. Because the<BR><BR>>> people who
study immigration tell us that the level of education of <BR>>>
immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates
large<BR><BR>>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English"
(whatever that <BR>>> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students
who have very <BR>>> little education in their native countries and too
little money to <BR>>> serve them. So anyone who has any ideas about how
to bridge this <BR>>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting
ideas about how to <BR>>> close it on this discussion
list.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Forrest
Chisman<BR>>><BR>>> Vice President<BR>>><BR>>>
CAAL<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
*From:* assessment-bounces@nifl.gov <BR>>>
[mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov]<BR>>> *On<BR>>> Behalf Of
*Tina_Luffman@yc.edu<BR>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32
PM<BR>>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List<BR>>> *Subject:*
[Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No <BR>>> Questions or
Comments?!<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Hi
Jackie,<BR>>><BR>>> Thank you for this information. I believe this
research must be what <BR>>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her
argument on for bilingual <BR>>> education in the K-12 school
system.<BR>>><BR>>> Tina<BR>>><BR>>> Tina
Luffman<BR>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education<BR>>> Verde
Valley Campus<BR>>> 928-634-6544<BR>>>
tina_luffman@yc.edu<BR>>><BR>>> *"Jackie Coelho" * Sent by:
<BR>>> assessment-bounces@nifl.gov<BR>>><BR>>> 02/05/2008
11:13 AM<BR>>><BR>>> Please respond to<BR>>> The Assessment
Discussion List <BR>>><BR>>> To<BR>>><BR>>> "The
Assessment Discussion List" <BR>>><BR>>>
cc<BR>>><BR>>> Subject<BR>>><BR>>> [Assessment 1108]
Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or <BR>>>
Comments?!<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Hi Tina,<BR>>><BR>>> This has been researched already and is the
basis for the arguement <BR>>> in favor of bilingual education, a good
idea that was not implemented<BR><BR>>> in the best way. For many years
people have known that a good <BR>>> foundation in literacy in the first
language will facilitate learning<BR><BR>>> in a second or third
language.<BR>>><BR>>> Another interesting twist is the existence
of languages that are not <BR>>> written.<BR>>><BR>>>
Jackie<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman@yc.edu
wrote:<BR>>> > Hi list members,<BR>>> ><BR>>> > My
experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to<BR>>>
that<BR>>> of<BR>>> > Gail. If the student has a solid
educational background in the <BR>>> > country<BR>>>
they<BR>>> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance
rather<BR>>> quickly<BR>>> and<BR>>> > get their GED.
Those coming with 6th grade educations from their<BR>>>
country<BR>>> or<BR>>> > lower tend to stay in the GED class
for years and do not make much <BR>>> > advancement.<BR>>>
><BR>>> > This experience relates well to research done among
Native American<BR>>> tribes<BR>>> > teaching them English.
Those Native Americans who were first taught<BR>>> literacy<BR>>>
> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those
<BR>>> > who<BR>>> tried<BR>>> > to learn literacy
skills in English without that background in <BR>>> >
their<BR>>> own<BR>>> > tongue. I also found similar problems
when I was learning Spanish. <BR>>> > The concepts I could mentally
translate from English to Spanish <BR>>> > were much<BR>>>
easier<BR>>> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in
English. Perhaps <BR>>> > this<BR>>> is<BR>>> >
something deserving more research.<BR>>> ><BR>>> >
Tina<BR>>> > Tina Luffman<BR>>> > Coordinator, Developmental
Education Verde Valley Campus<BR>>> > 928-634-6544<BR>>> >
tina_luffman@yc.edu<BR>>> ><BR>>> >
-----assessment-bounces@nifl.gov wrote: -----<BR>>> ><BR>>>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <BR>>> > From: "Gail
Burnett" Sent by: <BR>>> > assessment-bounces@nifl.gov<BR>>>
> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM<BR>>> > Subject: [Assessment 1104]
{Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or<BR><BR>>> >
Comments?!<BR>>> ><BR>>> ><BR>>> > Warning: This
message has had one or more attachments removed<BR>>> > Warning: (not
named).<BR>>> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt"
attachment(s) for<BR>>> more<BR>>> > information.<BR>>>
><BR>>> > In our small adult education program, my experience
(just about <BR>>> > three<BR>>> years)<BR>>> > is
that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,<BR>>>
particularly if<BR>>> > they're not working too many hours. Those who
advance the slowest, <BR>>> > if<BR>>> at<BR>>> > all,
are immigrants who are barely literate in their first <BR>>> >
language. I<BR>>> would<BR>>> > say that lack of education is a
bigger factor than lack of time; a<BR>>> student<BR>>> > who
works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed <BR>>> >
because<BR>>> he/she<BR>>> > is familiar with academic work,
and is goal-oriented. What we do is<BR>>> try<BR>>> to<BR>>>
> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a
hard<BR>>> concept<BR>>> > in a second language.<BR>>>
><BR>>> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the
research don't<BR>>> play<BR>>> a<BR>>> > part, though.
I'm one of those barely-trained teachers <BR>>> >
(transitioned<BR>>> from<BR>>> > another career, got trained
mainly through workshops rather than<BR>>> classes).<BR>>> > My
skill level very well may contribute to students'
slow<BR>advancement.<BR>>> It's<BR>>> > hard for small adult
education programs to get highly skilled ESL<BR>>> teachers.<BR>>>
> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is<BR>>>
encouraging<BR>>> me<BR>>> > to get extra training and has me
on a plan of improvement. I think<BR>>> we're<BR>>> > making
some progress.<BR>>> ><BR>>> > Does this address any of the
issues? And am I submitting it right?<BR>>> ><BR>>> >
________________________________<BR>>> ><BR>>> > From:
assessment-bounces@nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora<BR>>> > Sent: Mon
2/4/2008 6:50 PM<BR>>> > To: Assessment@nifl.gov<BR>>> >
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!<BR>>>
><BR>>> ><BR>>> > Hello everyone,<BR>>>
><BR>>> > I'm so surprised! No one has anything to comment on
regarding your<BR><BR>>> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL
students advance?? I was <BR>>> > very curious to know if subscribers
experience the same types of <BR>>> > issues<BR>>>
that<BR>>> Dr.<BR>>> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their
research: a lack of <BR>>> > intensity<BR>>> of<BR>>>
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few <BR>>>
> opportunities<BR>>> for<BR>>> > professional
development.<BR>>> ><BR>>> > What are the issues in your
program that you feel inhibit the ESL<BR>>> student<BR>>> >
from advancing? What do you try to do about that?<BR>>> ><BR>>>
> Please post your questions and comments now.<BR>>> ><BR>>>
> Thanks!<BR>>> ><BR>>> > Marie Cora<BR>>> >
Assessment Discussion List Moderator<BR>>> ><BR>>>
><BR>>> > Marie Cora<BR>>> >
marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com<BR>>> > <BR>>> > NIFL
Assessment Discussion List Moderator <BR>>> > <BR>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment<BR>>> ><BR>>>
><BR>>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are
confidential and<BR>>> intended<BR>>> > solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are<BR>>> addressed.<BR>>>
> If you have received this email in error please notify the
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confidential information and is intended only<BR>>> for<BR>>>
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crandall@umbc.edu<BR>><BR><BR><BR>--<BR>JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall<BR>Professor,
Education Department<BR>Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy &
Culture Coordinator,<BR>Peace Corps Master's International Program in
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1000 Hilltop Circle,<BR>Baltimore, MD 21250<BR>ph: 410-455-2313/2376 fax:
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