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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Miriam,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I love this! I would never have thought of it. And I love stuff
I would never have thought of!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Forrest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> assessment-bounces@nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Miriam Burt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 08, 2008 3:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Assessment Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1199] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Noa
and others,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>I
like the idea of the snack bar very much, but I'm curious about how the concept
of buying and wearing second hand clothing from strangers, if you will, is
received by the students. My experience is that the idea purchasing and
wearing someone else's second-hand clothes and items is actually one that
doesn't always translate across all cultures. True, the idea is highly positive
among middle class here in the U.S. where it is seen as a way of saving
money, being "green," and not wasting resources -- and
this is demonstsrated by the prolitferation of trendy 2nd hand
boutiques in cities and ads on Craig's list to sell gently used baby clothes
(even diapers! ) and toys. However, some cultural groups may find the idea of
buying and wearing someone else's clothing as "charity" (as
Jodi says below) or something somewhat distasteful. Perhaps the fact that
all items are 50 cents takes that edge off? Has anyone else had this experience
with the concept of 2nd hand items and other cultures?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Great
discussion here! </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Miriam</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>**********</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Center for
Adult English Language Acquisition</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Center for
Applied Linguistics</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>4646 40th
Street NW</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Washington,
DC 20016</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(202)
362-0700 </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(202)
363-7204 (fax) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:mburt@cal.org"><span style='font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>mburt@cal.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
(email)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> assessment-bounces@nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jodi Crandall<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 08, 2008 1:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Assessment Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1192] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!<br>
<b>Importance:</b> Low</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>Noa, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>These are fabulous ideas. I especially like the
emphasis on how literacy level students can help those who are more educated
and also cooperate and compete with them in the snack bar and
boutique. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>You have provided clear guidance on how to maximize both
groups' strengths and also encourage them to learn from each other.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>By the way, "boutique" is so much more positive a
name than the usual "closet" or another name that sounds like it's
charity.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Do others have suggestions of ways of accommodating literacy
level and more educated students in the same class.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jodi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Sadan, Noa wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Jodi,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>The classroom mix of the highly educated literate students who
didn't know English with the literacy level beginning English students was
often a challenge. The first (unstated) task was to help the educated
students realize that they might learn a great deal from those who picked up
oral language faster than they did. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Techniques for dealing with the mixed levels:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>The Key: fostering a sense of community within
the class</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler,
moving around the groups</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> extra reading help
in reading given while class was working on either written assignments or
group projects</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'> <span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>groups
were mixed</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<ul type=disc>
<ul type=circle>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>always by language</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'> <span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>occasionally
by gender</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>rarely
by ability (only when reading lessons specifically for the literacy group
were held)</span><o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</ul>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <span style='color:blue'> Sc</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>hool Job:
The Refugee Center has a working Snack Bar, and Boutique (donated clothing -
everything sells for fifty cents/item).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'> <span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>students
polish their abilty to work together</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'> <span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>students
learn chain of command (literacy level students are supervisors just
as often as the highly educated, since they often have a verbal advantage)</span>
<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'> <span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>
literacy-level students could make coffee, serve as a cashier, and give
excellent customer service</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'> <span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>a
highly educated accountant who cannot get out an English sentence orally,
could create a cost-accounting spreadsheet see if it was less
expensive to buy bulk sugar or packets for coffee.</span><o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Other projects are used as well - making recipe books, making
student profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the possibilities
are endless for activities for mixed classes.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Noa</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> assessment-bounces@nifl.gov [<a
href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jodi Crandall<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Assessment Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Noa, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for sharing this. How wonderful to have had 20
hours per week for these students. Besides mutual respect (which is very
important), were there ways in which students could use their complementary
skills to help each other. If you could describe some of the activities
that you or others used that were helpful, that would be great.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If others of you could share your experiences with mixed
classes, and how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be interested.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The change to separate Listening, Reading and
"Homeroom" classes is also a very interesting way of meeting the
needs of this diverse population. I know that many community colleges
separate their instruction in adult ESL to oral language skills
(Listening/Speaking) and written language (Reading/Writing) skills. Are
there others out there who could share your experiences in this regard?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The presence of World English speakers and Generation 1.5
speakers in adult ESL has further complicated the situation. I'd be
interested in knowing how others have dealt with such diverse
students in adult ESL/ESOL.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jodi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program
(Montgomery<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with
no English,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in class with literacy level students. It was certainly
difficult<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive
20-hours/week<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between
the groups.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with
reading and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral
language. The<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer,
"I wish I could<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>read and write like you!", while the Russian woman
would reply, "I wish<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I could speak like you."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>All this ended with a slightly different solution. The
Refugee Center,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that
school day into<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes.
Homerooom took in all<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace.
This model was<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in place when we began to get World English speakers who
were not<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>literate. It provided a solution in which they could study
in a<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a
higher level<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Listening and Homeroom class.<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>From: <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>
[<a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To: The Assessment Discussion List<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
Questions or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jackie and Forrest,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I think most large programs separate literacy level students
from others<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>who are at a beginning level.<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>I know that back in the 1980s when
there<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges
created<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into
intermediate<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>levels, with one set of classes for students with limited
literacy or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>prior schooling and another for more educated students.<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>The reason was<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>that the students with less education made slower progress.<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>Some of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English
(requiring<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>literacy), but it is also because students need to become
accustomed to<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil,
and a wide<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>range of basic skills that come with being a student in a
class.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Those of you who have separate classes for those who need
literacy:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Can<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in
the same<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>class:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Can
you let us know how you manage?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>What
are some ways in which<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>you accommodate both sets of needs?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jodi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Forrest,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>I like
the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>background and those without. These two groups have such
different<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a
teacher to<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>meet the needs of either group well and I find that often
the stronger<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>students dominate the class, and their drive push the
teacher forward.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are
learning<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or
mentally<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those
students,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>I think that
literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jackie<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <<a
href="mailto:forrest@crosslink.net">forrest@crosslink.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>To all of you
who commented on level of prior education as a factor<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in student performance:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that
more<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>highly educated students do better in terms of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>persistence, learning<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to
expect<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>this.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Regrettably<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>we found very little hard data about how much difference
prior<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>education makes, because too few programs track the level of
prior<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>education of their students and correlate it with outcomes.
DO any of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH
difference<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>level of prior education makes?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>any strong impressions? And are there "cut points"
in prior education<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
completely<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high
school<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>graduates, college graduates, etc. --<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>or is level of prior education<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>pretty much of a continuum?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap
between<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>highly educated students and those with less prior
education?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Presumably students with very low levels of education are
more likely<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or
Low-Beginning<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>levels) why are (almost by<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>definition)<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>in
the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>math.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the
"gap" exist at<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels,
would it<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>be desirable to place less highly educated students in
separate<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>classes from those with more education and adjust the<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some
programs have<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish
GED. What has been<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any
other ideas?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual
education" that<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>should be tried?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas.
Because the<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>people who study immigration tell us that the level of
education of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform
mandates large<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>numbers of undocumented people to "learn English"
(whatever that<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have
very<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>little education in their native countries and too little
money to<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>serve them.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>So
anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>"education gap" could help us a lot by posting
ideas about how to<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>close it on this discussion list.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Forrest Chisman<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Vice President<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>CAAL<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*From:* <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>[<a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*On<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Behalf Of *<a href="mailto:Tina_Luffman@yc.edu">Tina_Luffman@yc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*To:* The Assessment Discussion List<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Questions or Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Jackie,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thank you for this information. I believe this research must
be what<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for
bilingual<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>education in the K-12 school system.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tina<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tina Luffman<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Coordinator, Developmental Education<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Verde Valley Campus<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>928-634-6544<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>*"Jackie
Coelho" <<a href="mailto:jackie.coelho@gmail.com">jackie.coelho@gmail.com</a>>*
Sent by:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>02/05/2008 11:13 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Please respond to<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The Assessment Discussion List <<a
href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>"The Assessment Discussion List" <<a
href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>cc<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Subject<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
or <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Tina,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This has been researched already and is the basis for the
arguement<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not
implemented<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in the best way. For many years people have known that a
good<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate
learning<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in a second or third language.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that
are not<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>written.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jackie<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On 2/5/08, <a href="mailto:Tina_Luffman@yc.edu">Tina_Luffman@yc.edu</a>
<<a href="mailto:Tina_Luffman@yc.edu">Tina_Luffman@yc.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi list members,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is
similar to<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>that<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in
the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>country<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>they<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>came from in their native language, they tend to advance
rather<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>quickly<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from
their<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>country<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not
make much<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>advancement.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This experience relates well to research done among Native
American<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>tribes<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first
taught<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than
those<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>who<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>tried<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>to learn literacy skills in English without that background
in<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>their<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>own<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning
Spanish.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The concepts I could mentally translate from English to
Spanish<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>were much<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>easier<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>this<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>something deserving more research.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tina<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tina Luffman<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>928-634-6544<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:-----assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">-----assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>
wrote: -----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <<a
href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>From: "Gail Burnett" <<a
href="mailto:gburnett@sanford.org">gburnett@sanford.org</a>> Sent by:<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
Questions or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Warning: This message has had one or more attachments
removed<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Warning: (not named).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt"
attachment(s) for<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>more<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>information.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In our small adult education program, my experience (just
about<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>three<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>years)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>particularly if<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the
slowest,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>if<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>at<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>language. I<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>would<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of
time; a<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>student<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>who works full-time and is exhausted often will still
succeed<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>because<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>he/she<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What
we do is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>try<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>to<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's
a hard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>concept<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>in a second language.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the
research don't<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>play<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>a<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>(transitioned<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>from<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather
than<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>classes).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>advancement.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>It's<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>hard for small adult education programs to get highly
skilled ESL<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>teachers.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>encouraging<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>me<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I
think<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>we're<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>making some progress.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it
right?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>From: <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>
on behalf of Marie Cora<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To: <a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hello everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'm so surprised!<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>No
one has anything to comment on regarding your<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>I was<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>very curious to know if subscribers experience the same
types of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>issues<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>that<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Dr.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>a lack of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>intensity<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>opportunities<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>for<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>professional development.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit
the ESL<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>student<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>from advancing?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>What
do you try to do about that?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Please post your questions and comments now.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Marie Cora<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Assessment Discussion List Moderator<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Marie Cora<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com">marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><<a href="mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com">mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><<a href="mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com">marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This email and any files transmitted with it are
confidential and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>intended<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>addressed.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If you have received this email in error please notify the
system<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>manager.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>This message contains confidential information and is
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<p class=MsoNormal>the<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal>individual named. If you are not the named addressee you
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<p class=MsoNormal>disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>National Institute for Literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Email delivered to <a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>National Institute for Literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Email delivered to <a href="mailto:jackie.coelho@gmail.com">jackie.coelho@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>National Institute for Literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Email delivered to <a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><<a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>National Institute for Literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Assessment mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Email delivered to <a href="mailto:jackie.coelho@gmail.com">jackie.coelho@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>National Institute for Literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Assessment mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please
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</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Email delivered to <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>--<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Professor, Education Department<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop
Circle,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Baltimore, MD 21250<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>ph:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>410-455-2313/2376<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>fax: <span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>410-455-8947/1880<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>email: <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>www.umbc.edu/llc/<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>www.umbc.edu/esol/<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>National Institute for Literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Assessment mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please
go to<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Email delivered to <a
href="mailto:noa.sadan@montgomerycollege.edu">noa.sadan@montgomerycollege.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>National Institute for Literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Assessment mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please
go to <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Email delivered to <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>National Institute for Literacy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Assessment mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please
go to <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Email delivered to <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Professor and Director<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>University of Maryland Baltimore County<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>1000 Hilltop Circle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Baltimore, MD 21250<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>tel: 410-455-2313<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>fax: 410-455-8947<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>eml: <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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