It probably depends upon the developing culture of the program, relative to several factors. <br><br>In my experience, part of this is in the packaging as mentioned below. I have had successful auctions with students from Viet Nam, Sierra Leone, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Ghana, Haiti, Bosnia. The items are in good as new condition, useful and mostly not clothes. Everyone gets an equal amount of money in different forms each time: paper dollars, bills and change, a ledger to be verified by student bankers. At very least they've enjoy it as a game in English.<br><br>The students are in the US now. Exposing them to various views of secondhand items as part of shopping is a fair enough part of our job as ESL instructors or programs, besides the workplace skills. I've asked about how or if they share children's clothes in their families. This has been a safe starting point so far and allows for a discussion of differences. A field trip to a nearby secondhand store is how we began
our process. We had also visited a nearby grocery store. It does provide a lot of opportunities to discuss pricing, discounts, percents, etc. <br><br>The students should not be forced or expected to buy or accept anything. They do not embarrass someone by refusing something. What they think or do is their business. Being able to discuss this is a good way to practice important conversation skills. <br><br>Mary Jane Jerde<br><br><b><i>Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin@hotmail.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <style> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } </style> I totally agree. Second-hand clothes are often seen as "dead people's clothes". Also, it can be offensive to students if they believe this is all teachers think they can afford. We had a white elephant sale at our school once and it bombed. The
students did not like the idea of old gifts. They considered in unbelievably tacky. These were Mexican students. The "dead people's clothes" came from a woman from Nepal. <br><br><blockquote><hr>Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:04:13 -0500<br>From: mburt@cal.org<br>To: assessment@nifl.gov<br>Subject: [Assessment 1199] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions orComments?!<br><br> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML"> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Noa and others,</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">I like the idea of the snack bar very much, but I'm curious about how the concept of buying and wearing second
hand clothing from strangers, if you will, is received by the students. My experience is that the idea purchasing and wearing someone else's second-hand clothes and items is actually one that doesn't always translate across all cultures. True, the idea is highly positive among middle class here in the U.S. where it is seen as a way of saving money, being "green," and not wasting resources -- and this is demonstsrated by the prolitferation of trendy 2nd hand boutiques in cities and ads on Craig's list to sell gently used baby clothes (even diapers! ) and toys. However, some cultural groups may find the idea of buying and wearing someone else's clothing as "charity" (as Jodi says below) or something somewhat distasteful. Perhaps the fact that all items are 50 cents takes that edge off? </font></span><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Has anyone else had this experience with
the concept of 2nd hand items and other cultures?</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Great discussion here! </font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Miriam</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">**********</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"> <div align="left"><font face="Arial">Center for Adult English Language Acquisition</font></div> <div align="left"><font face="Arial">Center for Applied Linguistics</font></div> <div align="left"><font face="Arial">4646 40th Street NW</font></div> <div align="left"><font face="Arial">Washington, DC 20016</font></div> <div
align="left"><font face="Arial">(202) 362-0700 </font></div> <div align="left"><font face="Arial">(202) 36</font><font face="Arial">3-7204 (fax) </font></div> <div align="left"><a href="mailto:mburt@cal.org"><font face="Arial">m<span class="EC_794251519-08022008">burt</span>@cal.org</font></a><font face="Arial"> (email)</font></div></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="EC_794251519-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"> <hr> </div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> assessment-bounces@nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jodi Crandall<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 08, 2008 1:18 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Assessment Discussion List<br><b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1192] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions orComments?!<br><b>Importance:</b> Low<br></font><br></div> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;">
<div></div>Noa, <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>These are fabulous ideas. I especially like the emphasis on how literacy level students can help those who are more educated and also cooperate and compete with them in the snack bar and boutique. </div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>You have provided clear guidance on how to maximize both groups' strengths and also encourage them to learn from each other.</div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>By the way, "boutique" is so much more positive a name than the usual "closet" or another name that sounds like it's charity.</div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>Do others have suggestions of ways of accommodating literacy level and more educated students in the same class.</div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>Jodi</div> <div><br> <div> <div>On Feb 8,
2008, at 11:59 AM, Sadan, Noa wrote:</div><br class="EC_Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Jodi,</font></span></div> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">The classroom mix of the highly educated literate students who didn't know English with the literacy level beginning English students was often a challenge. The first (unstated) task was to help the educated students realize that they might learn a great deal from those who picked up oral language faster than they did. </font></span></div> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff"
face="Arial" size="2">Techniques for dealing with the mixed levels:</font></span></div> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"> <font face="Arial"><font color="#0000ff" size="2">The Key: fostering a sense of community within the class</font></font></span></div> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"> Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler, moving around the groups</font></span></div> <ul> <li><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"> extra reading help in reading given while class was working on either written assignments or group projects</font></span> </li><li><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">groups were mixed</font></span> <ul> <li><span
class="EC_213251616-08022008"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">always by language</font></span> </li><li><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"> </span><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">occasionally by gender</font></span> </li><li><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">rarely by ability (only when reading lessons specifically for the literacy group were held)</font></font></span></li></ul></li></ul> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"> <font color="#0000ff"> Sc</font></span><span
class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">hool Job: The Refugee Center has a working Snack Bar, and Boutique (donated clothing - everything sells for fifty cents/item).</font></span></div> <ul> <li><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">students polish their abilty to work together</font></span> </li><li><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">students learn chain of command (literacy level students are supervisors just as often as the highly educated, since they often have a verbal advantage)</font></span> </li><li><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"> literacy-level students could make coffee, serve as a
cashier, and give excellent customer service</font></span> </li><li><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"> <font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">a highly educated accountant who cannot get out an English sentence orally, could create a cost-accounting spreadsheet see if it was less expensive to buy bulk sugar or packets for coffee.</font></span></li></ul> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Other projects are used as well - making recipe books, making student profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the possibilities are endless for activities for mixed classes.</font></span></div> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div> <div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Noa</font></span></div>
<div><span class="EC_213251616-08022008"> </span><br></div> <div class="EC_OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us"> <hr> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> assessment-bounces@nifl.gov [<a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jodi Crandall<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:59 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Assessment Discussion List<br><b>Subject:</b> [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions orComments?!<br></font><br></div> <div></div>Noa, <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>Thanks for sharing this. How wonderful to have had 20 hours per week for these students. Besides mutual respect (which is very important), were there ways in which students could use their complementary skills to help each other. If you could describe some of the activities
that you or others used that were helpful, that would be great.</div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>If others of you could share your experiences with mixed classes, and how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be interested.</div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom" classes is also a very interesting way of meeting the needs of this diverse population. I know that many community colleges separate their instruction in adult ESL to oral language skills (Listening/Speaking) and written language (Reading/Writing) skills. Are there others out there who could share your experiences in this regard?</div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>The presence of World English speakers and Generation 1.5 speakers in adult ESL has further complicated the situation. I'd be
interested in knowing how others have dealt with such diverse students in adult ESL/ESOL.</div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div>Jodi</div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div> </div> <div>n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote: <div><br class="EC_Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote> <div style="">Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery</div> <div style="">College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no English,</div> <div style="">in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult</div> <div style="">meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/week</div> <div style="">program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.</div> <div
style="">Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and</div> <div style="">writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language. The</div> <div style="">Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I could</div> <div style="">read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I wish</div> <div style="">I could speak like you."</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee Center,</div> <div style="">then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school day into</div> <div style="">separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all</div> <div style="">skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This model was</div> <div style="">in place when we began to get World
English speakers who were not</div> <div style="">literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a</div> <div style="">literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level</div> <div style="">Listening and Homeroom class.<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">-----Original Message-----</div> <div style="">From: <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a> [<a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]</div> <div style="">On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall</div> <div style="">Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM</div> <div style="">To: The Assessment Discussion List</div> <div style="">Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or</div> <div style="">Comments?!</div>
<div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Jackie and Forrest,</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others</div> <div style="">who are at a beginning level.<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>I know that back in the 1980s when there</div> <div style="">were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created</div> <div style="">parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate</div> <div style="">levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or</div> <div style="">prior schooling and another for more educated students.<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>The reason was</div> <div style="">that the students with less education made slower progress.<span
class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Some of</div> <div style="">this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring</div> <div style="">literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to</div> <div style="">attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide</div> <div style="">range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:</div> <div style="">Can</div> <div style="">you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same</div> <div style="">class:<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Can you
let us know how you manage?<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>What are some ways in which</div> <div style="">you accommodate both sets of needs?</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Jodi</div> <blockquote> <div style="">Forrest,</div> <div style=""><span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">background and those without. These two groups have such different<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger</div></blockquote> <div
style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <div style="">students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward.</div></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <div style="">If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students,<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.</div> <div style=""><span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And
regardless</div></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <div style="">of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.</div> <div style="">Jackie</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <<a href="mailto:forrest@crosslink.net">forrest@crosslink.net</a>> wrote:</div> <blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style=""><span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">in student performance:</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div
style="">Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">highly educated students do better in terms of<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>persistence, learning</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">this.</div> <div style="">Regrettably</div> <div style="">we found very little hard data about how much difference prior<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
<div style="">education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">level of prior education makes?</div> <div style="">Or</div> <div style="">any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school<span
class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">graduates, college graduates, etc. --<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>or is level of prior education</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">pretty much of a continuum?</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">highly educated students and those with less prior education?<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">Presumably students with very low levels of education are more
likely</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">levels) why are (almost by</div> <div style="">definition)<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">math.</div> <div style="">Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height:
14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">classes from those with more education and adjust the<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas?<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that<span
class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">should be tried?</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that<span
class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">little education in their native countries and too little money to<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">serve them.<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">"education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">close it on this discussion list.</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div
style="">Forrest Chisman</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Vice President</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">CAAL</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">*From:* <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a><span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">[<a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a>]</div> <div style="">*On</div> <div style="">Behalf Of *<a
href="mailto:Tina_Luffman@yc.edu">Tina_Luffman@yc.edu</a></div> <div style="">*Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM</div> <div style="">*To:* The Assessment Discussion List</div> <div style="">*Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">Questions or Comments?!</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Hi Jackie,</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for
bilingual<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">education in the K-12 school system.</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Tina</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Tina Luffman</div> <div style="">Coordinator, Developmental Education</div> <div style="">Verde Valley Campus</div> <div style="">928-634-6544</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style=""><span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>*"Jackie Coelho" <<a href="mailto:jackie.coelho@gmail.com">jackie.coelho@gmail.com</a>>* Sent by:<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a></div>
<div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">02/05/2008 11:13 AM</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Please respond to</div> <div style="">The Assessment Discussion List <<a href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">To</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">"The Assessment Discussion List" <<a href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">cc</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Subject</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or <span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
<div style="">Comments?!</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Hi Tina,</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">in the best way. For many years people have known that a good<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
<div style="">foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning</div></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">in a second or third language.</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">written.</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Jackie</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">On 2/5/08, <a href="mailto:Tina_Luffman@yc.edu">Tina_Luffman@yc.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:Tina_Luffman@yc.edu">Tina_Luffman@yc.edu</a>> wrote:</div> <blockquote> <div style="">Hi list members,</div>
<div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to</div></blockquote> <div style="">that</div> <div style="">of</div> <blockquote> <div style="">Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">country</div></blockquote> <div style="">they</div> <blockquote> <div style="">came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather</div></blockquote> <div style="">quickly</div> <div style="">and</div> <blockquote> <div style="">get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their</div></blockquote> <div style="">country</div> <div style="">or</div> <blockquote>
<div style="">lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">advancement.</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">This experience relates well to research done among Native American</div></blockquote> <div style="">tribes</div> <blockquote> <div style="">teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught</div></blockquote> <div style="">literacy</div> <blockquote> <div style="">skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">who</div></blockquote> <div style="">tried</div> <blockquote> <div style="">to learn literacy skills in English without that
background in<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">their</div></blockquote> <div style="">own</div> <blockquote> <div style="">tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish.<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">were much</div></blockquote> <div style="">easier</div> <blockquote> <div style="">to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">this</div></blockquote> <div style="">is</div> <blockquote> <div style="">something deserving more research.</div> <div
style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Tina</div> <div style="">Tina Luffman</div> <div style="">Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus</div> <div style="">928-634-6544</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:-----assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">-----assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a> wrote: -----</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <<a href="mailto:assessment@nifl.gov">assessment@nifl.gov</a>></div> <div style="">From: "Gail Burnett" <<a href="mailto:gburnett@sanford.org">gburnett@sanford.org</a>> Sent by:<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style=""><a
href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a></div> <div style="">Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM</div> <div style="">Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or</div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">Comments?!</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed</div> <div style="">Warning: (not named).</div> <div style="">Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for</div></blockquote> <div style="">more</div> <blockquote> <div style="">information.</div> <div style="min-height:
14px;"><br></div> <div style="">In our small adult education program, my experience (just about<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">three</div></blockquote> <div style="">years)</div> <blockquote> <div style="">is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,</div></blockquote> <div style="">particularly if</div> <blockquote> <div style="">they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest,<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">if</div></blockquote> <div style="">at</div> <blockquote> <div style="">all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">language. I</div></blockquote> <div
style="">would</div> <blockquote> <div style="">say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a</div></blockquote> <div style="">student</div> <blockquote> <div style="">who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">because</div></blockquote> <div style="">he/she</div> <blockquote> <div style="">is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is</div></blockquote> <div style="">try</div> <div style="">to</div> <blockquote> <div style="">get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard</div></blockquote> <div style="">concept</div> <blockquote> <div style="">in a second language.</div> <div
style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't</div></blockquote> <div style="">play</div> <div style="">a</div> <blockquote> <div style="">part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">(transitioned</div></blockquote> <div style="">from</div> <blockquote> <div style="">another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than</div></blockquote> <div style="">classes).</div> <blockquote> <div style="">My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow</div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="">advancement.</div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">It's</div> <blockquote>
<div style="">hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL</div></blockquote> <div style="">teachers.</div> <blockquote> <div style="">The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is</div></blockquote> <div style="">encouraging</div> <div style="">me</div> <blockquote> <div style="">to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think</div></blockquote> <div style="">we're</div> <blockquote> <div style="">making some progress.</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">________________________________</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div>
<div style="">From: <a href="mailto:assessment-bounces@nifl.gov">assessment-bounces@nifl.gov</a> on behalf of Marie Cora</div> <div style="">Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM</div> <div style="">To: <a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></div> <div style="">Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Hello everyone,</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">I'm so surprised!<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>No one has anything to comment on regarding your</div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <div style="">program's effectiveness at helping ESL
students advance??<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>I was<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">issues</div></blockquote> <div style="">that</div> <div style="">Dr.</div> <blockquote> <div style="">Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>a lack of<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style="">intensity</div></blockquote> <div style="">of</div> <blockquote> <div style="">instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div
style="">opportunities</div></blockquote> <div style="">for</div> <blockquote> <div style="">professional development.</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL</div></blockquote> <div style="">student</div> <blockquote> <div style="">from advancing?<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>What do you try to do about that?</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Please post your questions and comments now.</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Thanks!</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Marie Cora</div> <div style="">Assessment Discussion List Moderator</div> <div style="min-height:
14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">Marie Cora</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com">marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com</a></div> <div style=""><<a href="mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com">mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com</a>></div> <div style="">NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style=""><<a href="mailto:marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com">marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com</a>></div></blockquote> <div style=""><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></div> <blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">This email and any files transmitted
with it are confidential and</div></blockquote> <div style="">intended</div> <blockquote> <div style="">solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are</div></blockquote> <div style="">addressed.</div> <blockquote> <div style="">If you have received this email in error please notify the system</div></blockquote> <div style="">manager.</div> <blockquote> <div style="">This message contains confidential information and is intended only</div></blockquote> <div style="">for</div> <div style="">the</div> <blockquote> <div style="">individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not</div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote>
<div style="">disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.</div> <div style="">-------------------------------</div> <div style="">National Institute for Literacy</div> <div style="">Assessment mailing list</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></div> <div style="">To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style=""><<a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a>></div></blockquote> <div style=""><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></div> <blockquote> <div style="">Email delivered to <a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a></div>
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href="mailto:jackie.coelho@gmail.com">jackie.coelho@gmail.com</a></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div></blockquote> <div style="">-------------------------------</div> <div style="">National Institute for Literacy</div> <div style="">Assessment mailing list</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></div> <div style="">To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style=""><<a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a>></div> <div style=""><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment"
target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></div> <div style="">Email delivered to <a href="mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu">tina_luffman@yc.edu</a><span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style=""><<a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a>></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">-------------------------------</div> <div style="">National Institute for Literacy</div> <div style="">Assessment mailing list</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></div> <div style="">To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style=""><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment"
target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></div> <div style="">Email delivered to <a href="mailto:jackie.coelho@gmail.com">jackie.coelho@gmail.com</a></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div></blockquote> <div style="">-------------------------------</div> <div style="">National Institute for Literacy</div> <div style="">Assessment mailing list</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></div> <div style="">To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> <div style=""><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></div> <div style="">Email delivered to <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a></div>
<div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div></blockquote> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">--</div> <div style="">JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall</div> <div style="">Professor, Education Department</div> <div style="">Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator,</div> <div style="">Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education</div> <div style="">University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,</div> <div style="">Baltimore, MD 21250</div> <div style="">ph:<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>410-455-2313/2376<span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>fax: <span class="EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>410-455-8947/1880</div> <div style="">email: <a
href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a></div> <div style="">www.umbc.edu/llc/</div> <div style="">www.umbc.edu/esol/</div> <div style="">www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html</div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div> <div style="">-------------------------------</div> <div style="">National Institute for Literacy</div> <div style="">Assessment mailing list</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></div> <div style="">To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to</div> <div style=""><a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></div> <div style="">Email delivered to <a href="mailto:noa.sadan@montgomerycollege.edu">noa.sadan@montgomerycollege.edu</a></div>
<div style="">-------------------------------</div> <div style="">National Institute for Literacy</div> <div style="">Assessment mailing list</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></div> <div style="">To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></div> <div style="">Email delivered to <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a></div> <div style="min-height: 14px;"><br></div></blockquote></div><br> <div><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; border-collapse: separate;"><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"></span></span></span></span></div><br></div> <div style="">-------------------------------</div> <div style="">National Institute for Literacy</div> <div style="">Assessment mailing list</div> <div style=""><a href="mailto:Assessment@nifl.gov">Assessment@nifl.gov</a></div> <div style="">To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment</a></div> <div style="">Email delivered to <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a></div></blockquote></div><br> <div><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"> <div>JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall</div> <div>Professor and Director</div> <div>Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program</div> <div>Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education</div> <div>University of Maryland Baltimore County</div> <div>1000 Hilltop Circle</div> <div>Baltimore, MD 21250</div> <div>tel: 410-455-2313</div> <div>fax: 410-455-8947</div> <div>eml: <a href="mailto:crandall@umbc.edu">crandall@umbc.edu</a></div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div> <div><br class="EC_khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="EC_Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span></span></div><br></div></blockquote>
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