Aaron--

I'm also not going to do any more talking about EFF until I have more 
knowledge, so I will have to do some reading.

Andrea
On Apr 4, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Andrea Wilder wrote:


> Aaron--

>

> All i want to do is bury myself in my reading, guess I shouldn't do

> that.

>

> The three role maps--activities of adults:  community, work, family.  I

> think these were given from the beginning.

>

>   i am a proponent of grounded research, I use it everyday like most

> people, By Geertz it is called something like "Common  Sense as a

> Cultural System."  The common sense approach got kicked up   to

> ethnographic status and  inductive learning was added, and it became

> rationalized by people who wanted some way to understand those who

> seemed different from themselves--e.g.,--anthropoloigy.came into its

> own. I' ll get back to this a  bit alter.

>

> Thanks, Aaron.  Back to the printing press.

>

> Andrea

>

>

> On Apr 4, 2006, at 8:50 AM, Aaron Kohring wrote:

>

>> Andrea,

>>

>> Thanks for your thought-provoking questions.  I wanted to make some

>> clarification on a couple of your points below before others jump into

>> the

>> discussion.

>>

>> 1) "i am aware that this list serves teachers, administrators, who use

>> EFF

>> and maybe helped make EFF."

>> --  To clarify, this list serves a broader audience than those just 

>> using

>> EFF Standards. The intent is to include all efforts involved with 

>> using

>> Content Standards in an adult education setting.  Some states, as you

>> mention, are using EFF standards, some are using a subset of those

>> standards, and others are using other standards which may be compiled

>> from

>> multiple sources.  So this discussion list hopes to encourage the

>> sharing

>> of what is happening within that larger audience.

>>

>> And this discussion list continues to have a goal to be inclusive of

>> the

>> system at all levels- we hope to continue the current discussion of

>> standards work at the State level, but also have future discussions

>> regarding the use/impact of standards with

>> programs/administrators/teachers/learners.

>>

>> 2) "As i recall, Tom Sticht  mentioned after reading George D.'s  book

>> that

>> EFF wasn't striclty speaking a fully  grounded approach to data

>> gathering--the categories were  givens, did not emerge."

>> -- In regards to the categories that were 'named' during the EFF 

>> research,

>> if this refers to the 'Purposes' learners attend adult education, 

>> 'Role

>> Maps', 'Common Activities', 'Standards', 'Performance Continua', 

>> etc.--

>> then this was very much data driven.  Qualitative research methods 

>> were

>> used with data collected from the field (from learners, teachers,

>> program &

>> state administrators) in an iterative process in order to name each of

>> these categories.

>>

>> Andrea, I might need more information from you to know if this answers

>> or

>> clarifies your points above.

>>

>> Sincerely,

>> Aaron

>>

>>

>> At 11:00 AM 4/1/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>>> Dear David, Aaron,

>>>

>>> Nothing like a top of the head response to engender controversy and

>>> maybe dismay, but  here goes.

>>>

>>> The story of the early printing press is all about adult literacy, in

>>> two volumes with very small print, i don't think a "school" has been

>>> mentioned yet.  Instead I find out how all sorts of adults used the

>>> press--churchmen, nascent scientists, guild members, small

>>> shopkeepers,

>>> the list is very long.  A "gutter press" emerged.The printing press

>>> organized knowledge and essentailly broke the guild system, as

>>> knowledge could now be  gotten through a book, not a person.  Without

>>> the printing press we would have been either dead or Catholic.

>>>

>>> I remember seeing a draft of a paper by Sondra Stein in maybe  1997

>>> and

>>>   having two reactions:  1)  wish somebody had given me role maps,

>>> they

>>> sure would have helped,  plus 2)        life cannot be  reduced to

>>> role maps

>>> which by their structure and  assumptions are narrow and ethnocentric

>>> (which I have been charged with being, myself).

>>>

>>> Being a qualititative researcher, I always ask:  can I find myself in

>>> here?

>>>

>>> What I think the EFF standards are is  an updated guild system, with

>>> the teacher the master and the adult learner the novice.

>>>

>>> Maybe the EFF standards are an answer to the problem of

>>> attendance--EFF

>>> carries the student over  irregular attendance.  Maybe EFF is an

>>> answer

>>> to the dilemma of what to teach and a common vocabulary for students

>>> and teachers.  So what I call "narrow" is maybe a way of organizing

>>> chaos.  EFF is CERTAINLY a tool for acculaturation into  American

>>> norms.

>>>

>>> I understand that Sondra  had many years of teaching adults, so much

>>> of  EFF is guided by  her experience.  i can't argue with that, don't

>>> want to.  EFF is a phenomenal effort.

>>>

>>> Do you play Mah Jongg?  That's how i think of David's idea of

>>> thousands

>>> of modules--a universe of little tiles (modules) floating out in

>>> (cyber)space.  By themselves the tiles break free of roles, you don't

>>> have to fit the tiles into an EFF framework, though it would be 

>>> useful

>>> to have an overarching system, like the "curriculum standards" we as

>>> teachers invented when i was a school teacher.

>>>

>>> I don't want to offend anyone, and i am aware that this list  serves

>>> teachers, administrators, who  use EFF and maybe helped make EFF.  

>>> But

>>> I will just continue--the "Equipped for the Future Content Standards"

>>> is really hard to get through.  i guess it must have been written for

>>> multiple audiences.  if I were thinking of using EFF I would want a

>>> three-holed punched explanation of EFF with a one page executive

>>> summary, maybe, or description of how it was built, then at  most  5

>>> pages (maybe 3) of narrative about how to" do"  EFF.

>>>

>>> So...any "selling"  or "explication" of EFF should focus  first on

>>> the

>>> problems it seeks  to solve.

>>>

>>> What i would really like is feedback  on EFF--from people who use

>>> it--on my points:

>>>

>>> 1)      ethnocentric (fitting into American culture)

>>> 2)      normative ( idealized American values, e.g., "respect for

>>> diversity)

>>> 2)      narrow (no mention of basic survival skills)

>>>

>>> As i recall, Tom Sticht  mentioned after reading George D.'s  book

>>> that

>>> EFF wasn't striclty speaking a fully  grounded approach to data

>>> gathering--the categories were  givens, did not emerge.

>>>

>>> So please correct me  on any  of the points above;  skewering is

>>> painful, so leave off the sword play,  I  think.

>>>

>>> Ready to be educated.

>>>

>>> Andrea

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> On Mar 31, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Aaron Kohring wrote:

>>>

>>>> Yes, David- I agree with your interpretation.  And I'm also glad you

>>>> mentioned other areas where the term Content Standards could apply.

>>>> In

>>>> fact, there has recently been some discussion on the Technology list

>>>> about

>>>> Standards for using Technology.

>>>>

>>>> Andrea, as regards to print, do you think standards for Reading &

>>>> Writing

>>>> would apply?  And what about certain applications of print-

>>>> advocating

>>>> for

>>>> a point of view if seen through an EFF lens could also bring in the

>>>> standard "Advocate and Influence".  What do you think?

>>>>

>>>> Aaron

>>>>

>>>> At 04:28 PM 3/31/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>>>>> Andrea,

>>>>>

>>>>> My interpretation of "Content Standards" is this: this discussion

>>>>> list used to be called "NIFL-4EFF", and used to be about Equipped

>>>>> For

>>>>> the Future curriculum standards.  "Content standards" is a broader

>>>>> name which includes, but is not necessarily limited to,  EFF

>>>>> curriculum standards.  The discussion now includes state-developed

>>>>> curriculum frameworks and standards, and presumably curriculum

>>>>> frameworks and standards used in other countries.  It could also

>>>>> include industry-specific skills standards, as they might be used 

>>>>> in

>>>>> developing workplace literacy or workplace basic skills curricula,

>>>>> although I think no one has brought this up yet.

>>>>>

>>>>> Aaron, is this interpretation correct?

>>>>>

>>>>> David J. Rosen

>>>>> newsomeassociates.com

>>>>> djrosen at comcast.net

>>>>>

>>>>> On Mar 31, 2006, at 4:08 PM, Andrea Wilder wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Well, hello, everyone!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> i am putting together a long written piece on adult literacy, a 

>>>>>> lot

>>>>>> of

>>>>>> work, but there are revelations, too.  The printing press was an

>>>>>> agent

>>>>>> for standardization in chronology and in data, a general unifier 

>>>>>> of

>>>>>> many manuscripts (by hand!)  that enabled writers to really

>>>>>> communicate

>>>>>> with each other.  With printing:  the idea that progress, poaitive

>>>>>> change, could be made, as technological changes  expanded the 

>>>>>> known

>>>>>> world.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I am very interested in content standards, a way of measuring I

>>>>>> guess

>>>>>> the attainment of certain skills and knowledge  through print.  In

>>>>>> the

>>>>>> world of the early printing press that would have been 

>>>>>> impossible:,

>>>>>> "knowledge" was just being assembled.  The idea of "content

>>>>>> standards"

>>>>>> seems very narrow, circumscribed.  first one must agree on the

>>>>>> content,

>>>>>> ;  how does that happen?  CASAS?  EFF?  A bit of a puzzle.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Andrea Wilder

>>>>>>

>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>>>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>>>>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

>>>>>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

>>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

>>>>>

>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>>>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

>>>>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

>>>>

>>>> Aaron Kohring

>>>> Coordinator, LINCS Literacy & Learning Disabilities Special

>>>> Collection

>>>> (http://ldlink.coe.utk.edu/)

>>>> Moderator, National Institute for Literacy's Content Standards

>>>> Discussion

>>>> List (http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Contentstandards)

>>>> Coordinator, Equipped for the Future Websites

>>>> (http://eff.cls.utk.edu/)

>>>>

>>>> Center for Literacy Studies, University of Tennessee

>>>> EFF Center for Training and Technical Assistance

>>>> Phone:(865) 974-4109 main

>>>>            (865) 974-4258 direct

>>>> Fax:   (865) 974-3857

>>>> e-mail: akohring at utk.edu

>>>>

>>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

>>>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

>>>>

>>>

>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

>>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

>>

>> Aaron Kohring

>> Coordinator, LINCS Literacy & Learning Disabilities Special Collection

>> (http://ldlink.coe.utk.edu/)

>> Moderator, National Institute for Literacy's Content Standards

>> Discussion

>> List (http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Contentstandards)

>> Coordinator, Equipped for the Future Websites 

>> (http://eff.cls.utk.edu/)

>>

>> Center for Literacy Studies, University of Tennessee

>> EFF Center for Training and Technical Assistance

>> Phone:(865) 974-4109 main

>>            (865) 974-4258 direct

>> Fax:   (865) 974-3857

>> e-mail: akohring at utk.edu

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

>>

>

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>