Mary--


I have done a bit of reading, and have come up with this:  "These three 
[citizen, worker, parents] are not the only adult roles, but are key 
ones for public policy."  So the effort started from a top down policy 
view (goal 6) going by this quotation (p 18, Building the Framework).  
I don't mean to make too much of this for others, to me it is important 
because when I wrote my dissertation I went the final step,  Let the 
data emerge from the site.  No policy involved. ( I love reading real 
grounded research, it is fabulous. The classic example is Geertz, "Deep 
Play:  The Balinese Cockfight." Find it on the web , tap in "Geertz 
cockfight," take the first selection and there it is.).

I am guessing that there is much that is only referred to in brief 
notes to the Frameworks report (p. 40, Frameworks)

So EFF is a dance between policy and people, trying to find some 
workable solution to different agendas.

This is as far as I have gone, perhaps you have more info that I. I'll 
keep reading.  Thanks for  writing.

Andrea
On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:19 AM, mschnec at localnet.com wrote:


> I recall that the first President Bush set out six educational goals 

> in the Goals 2000. The sixth one referred to adults being prepared to 

> work in the global economy and being prepared to be good citizens. 

> NIFL was asked to figure out how to measure those things. When NIFL 

> got involed in the qualitative research, people around the country who 

> were participating in adult education programs made it very clear that 

> family was a major motivator for them in their educational goals. So 

> the first two EFF roles, worker and citizen, were part of goals 2000 

> but the third, family, was derived from the research. However, it is 

> my understanding that the other two roles were substantiated by the 

> research as well. I know there are a few people reading this who will 

> verify this if I am remembering correctly. Mary Schneckenburger, Maine

>

> Quoting Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>:

>

> > Aaron--

> >

> > I'm also not going to do any more talking about EFF until I have more

> > knowledge, so I will have to do some reading.

> >

> > Andrea

> > On Apr 4, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Andrea Wilder wrote:

> >

> >> Aaron--

> >>

> >> All i want to do is bury myself in my reading, guess I shouldn't do

> >> that.

> >>

> >> The three role maps--activities of adults:  community, work, 

> family.  I

> >> think these were given from the beginning.

> >>

> >>   i am a proponent of grounded research, I use it everyday like most

> >> people, By Geertz it is called something like "Common  Sense as a

> >> Cultural System."  The common sense approach got kicked up   to

> >> ethnographic status and  inductive learning was added, and it became

> >> rationalized by people who wanted some way to understand those who

> >> seemed different from themselves--e.g.,--anthropoloigy.came into its

> >> own. I' ll get back to this a  bit alter.

> >>

> >> Thanks, Aaron.  Back to the printing press.

> >>

> >> Andrea

> >>

> >>

> >> On Apr 4, 2006, at 8:50 AM, Aaron Kohring wrote:

> >>

> >>> Andrea,

> >>>

> >>> Thanks for your thought-provoking questions.  I wanted to make some

> >>> clarification on a couple of your points below before others jump 

> into

> >>> the

> >>> discussion.

> >>>

> >>> 1) "i am aware that this list serves teachers, administrators, who 

> use

> >>> EFF

> >>> and maybe helped make EFF."

> >>> --  To clarify, this list serves a broader audience than those just

> >>> using

> >>> EFF Standards. The intent is to include all efforts involved with

> >>> using

> >>> Content Standards in an adult education setting.  Some states, as 

> you

> >>> mention, are using EFF standards, some are using a subset of those

> >>> standards, and others are using other standards which may be 

> compiled

> >>> from

> >>> multiple sources.  So this discussion list hopes to encourage the

> >>> sharing

> >>> of what is happening within that larger audience.

> >>>

> >>> And this discussion list continues to have a goal to be inclusive 

> of

> >>> the

> >>> system at all levels- we hope to continue the current discussion of

> >>> standards work at the State level, but also have future discussions

> >>> regarding the use/impact of standards with

> >>> programs/administrators/teachers/learners.

> >>>

> >>> 2) "As i recall, Tom Sticht  mentioned after reading George D.'s  

> book

> >>> that

> >>> EFF wasn't striclty speaking a fully  grounded approach to data

> >>> gathering--the categories were  givens, did not emerge."

> >>> -- In regards to the categories that were 'named' during the EFF

> >>> research,

> >>> if this refers to the 'Purposes' learners attend adult education,

> >>> 'Role

> >>> Maps', 'Common Activities', 'Standards', 'Performance Continua',

> >>> etc.--

> >>> then this was very much data driven.  Qualitative research methods

> >>> were

> >>> used with data collected from the field (from learners, teachers,

> >>> program &

> >>> state administrators) in an iterative process in order to name 

> each of

> >>> these categories.

> >>>

> >>> Andrea, I might need more information from you to know if this 

> answers

> >>> or

> >>> clarifies your points above.

> >>>

> >>> Sincerely,

> >>> Aaron

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> At 11:00 AM 4/1/2006 -0500, you wrote:

> >>>> Dear David, Aaron,

> >>>>

> >>>> Nothing like a top of the head response to engender controversy 

> and

> >>>> maybe dismay, but  here goes.

> >>>>

> >>>> The story of the early printing press is all about adult 

> literacy, in

> >>>> two volumes with very small print, i don't think a "school" has 

> been

> >>>> mentioned yet.  Instead I find out how all sorts of adults used 

> the

> >>>> press--churchmen, nascent scientists, guild members, small

> >>>> shopkeepers,

> >>>> the list is very long.  A "gutter press" emerged.The printing 

> press

> >>>> organized knowledge and essentailly broke the guild system, as

> >>>> knowledge could now be  gotten through a book, not a person.  

> Without

> >>>> the printing press we would have been either dead or Catholic.

> >>>>

> >>>> I remember seeing a draft of a paper by Sondra Stein in maybe  

> 1997

> >>>> and

> >>>>   having two reactions:  1)  wish somebody had given me role maps,

> >>>> they

> >>>> sure would have helped,  plus 2)        life cannot be  reduced to

> >>>> role maps

> >>>> which by their structure and  assumptions are narrow and 

> ethnocentric

> >>>> (which I have been charged with being, myself).

> >>>>

> >>>> Being a qualititative researcher, I always ask:  can I find 

> myself in

> >>>> here?

> >>>>

> >>>> What I think the EFF standards are is  an updated guild system, 

> with

> >>>> the teacher the master and the adult learner the novice.

> >>>>

> >>>> Maybe the EFF standards are an answer to the problem of

> >>>> attendance--EFF

> >>>> carries the student over  irregular attendance.  Maybe EFF is an

> >>>> answer

> >>>> to the dilemma of what to teach and a common vocabulary for 

> students

> >>>> and teachers.  So what I call "narrow" is maybe a way of 

> organizing

> >>>> chaos.  EFF is CERTAINLY a tool for acculaturation into  American

> >>>> norms.

> >>>>

> >>>> I understand that Sondra  had many years of teaching adults, so 

> much

> >>>> of  EFF is guided by  her experience.  i can't argue with that, 

> don't

> >>>> want to.  EFF is a phenomenal effort.

> >>>>

> >>>> Do you play Mah Jongg?  That's how i think of David's idea of

> >>>> thousands

> >>>> of modules--a universe of little tiles (modules) floating out in

> >>>> (cyber)space.  By themselves the tiles break free of roles, you 

> don't

> >>>> have to fit the tiles into an EFF framework, though it would be

> >>>> useful

> >>>> to have an overarching system, like the "curriculum standards" we 

> as

> >>>> teachers invented when i was a school teacher.

> >>>>

> >>>> I don't want to offend anyone, and i am aware that this list  

> serves

> >>>> teachers, administrators, who  use EFF and maybe helped make EFF.

> >>>> But

> >>>> I will just continue--the "Equipped for the Future Content 

> Standards"

> >>>> is really hard to get through.  i guess it must have been written 

> for

> >>>> multiple audiences.  if I were thinking of using EFF I would want 

> a

> >>>> three-holed punched explanation of EFF with a one page executive

> >>>> summary, maybe, or description of how it was built, then at  

> most  5

> >>>> pages (maybe 3) of narrative about how to" do"  EFF.

> >>>>

> >>>> So...any "selling"  or "explication" of EFF should focus  first on

> >>>> the

> >>>> problems it seeks  to solve.

> >>>>

> >>>> What i would really like is feedback  on EFF--from people who use

> >>>> it--on my points:

> >>>>

> >>>> 1)      ethnocentric (fitting into American culture)

> >>>> 2)      normative ( idealized American values, e.g., "respect for

> >>>> diversity)

> >>>> 2)      narrow (no mention of basic survival skills)

> >>>>

> >>>> As i recall, Tom Sticht  mentioned after reading George D.'s  book

> >>>> that

> >>>> EFF wasn't striclty speaking a fully  grounded approach to data

> >>>> gathering--the categories were  givens, did not emerge.

> >>>>

> >>>> So please correct me  on any  of the points above;  skewering is

> >>>> painful, so leave off the sword play,  I  think.

> >>>>

> >>>> Ready to be educated.

> >>>>

> >>>> Andrea

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> On Mar 31, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Aaron Kohring wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>> Yes, David- I agree with your interpretation.  And I'm also glad 

> you

> >>>>> mentioned other areas where the term Content Standards could 

> apply.

> >>>>> In

> >>>>> fact, there has recently been some discussion on the Technology 

> list

> >>>>> about

> >>>>> Standards for using Technology.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Andrea, as regards to print, do you think standards for Reading &

> >>>>> Writing

> >>>>> would apply?  And what about certain applications of print-

> >>>>> advocating

> >>>>> for

> >>>>> a point of view if seen through an EFF lens could also bring in 

> the

> >>>>> standard "Advocate and Influence".  What do you think?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Aaron

> >>>>>

> >>>>> At 04:28 PM 3/31/2006 -0500, you wrote:

> >>>>>> Andrea,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> My interpretation of "Content Standards" is this: this 

> discussion

> >>>>>> list used to be called "NIFL-4EFF", and used to be about 

> Equipped

> >>>>>> For

> >>>>>> the Future curriculum standards.  "Content standards" is a 

> broader

> >>>>>> name which includes, but is not necessarily limited to,  EFF

> >>>>>> curriculum standards.  The discussion now includes 

> state-developed

> >>>>>> curriculum frameworks and standards, and presumably curriculum

> >>>>>> frameworks and standards used in other countries.  It could also

> >>>>>> include industry-specific skills standards, as they might be 

> used

> >>>>>> in

> >>>>>> developing workplace literacy or workplace basic skills 

> curricula,

> >>>>>> although I think no one has brought this up yet.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Aaron, is this interpretation correct?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> David J. Rosen

> >>>>>> newsomeassociates.com

> >>>>>> djrosen at comcast.net

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> On Mar 31, 2006, at 4:08 PM, Andrea Wilder wrote:

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Well, hello, everyone!

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> i am putting together a long written piece on adult literacy, a

> >>>>>>> lot

> >>>>>>> of

> >>>>>>> work, but there are revelations, too.  The printing press was 

> an

> >>>>>>> agent

> >>>>>>> for standardization in chronology and in data, a general 

> unifier

> >>>>>>> of

> >>>>>>> many manuscripts (by hand!)  that enabled writers to really

> >>>>>>> communicate

> >>>>>>> with each other.  With printing:  the idea that progress, 

> poaitive

> >>>>>>> change, could be made, as technological changes  expanded the

> >>>>>>> known

> >>>>>>> world.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> I am very interested in content standards, a way of measuring I

> >>>>>>> guess

> >>>>>>> the attainment of certain skills and knowledge  through 

> print.  In

> >>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>> world of the early printing press that would have been

> >>>>>>> impossible:,

> >>>>>>> "knowledge" was just being assembled.  The idea of "content

> >>>>>>> standards"

> >>>>>>> seems very narrow, circumscribed.  first one must agree on the

> >>>>>>> content,

> >>>>>>> ;  how does that happen?  CASAS?  EFF?  A bit of a puzzle.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Andrea Wilder

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------

> >>>>>>> National Institute for Literacy

> >>>>>>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

> >>>>>>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go 

> to

> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------

> >>>>>> National Institute for Literacy

> >>>>>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

> >>>>>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

> >>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go 

> to

> >>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Aaron Kohring

> >>>>> Coordinator, LINCS Literacy & Learning Disabilities Special

> >>>>> Collection

> >>>>> (http://ldlink.coe.utk.edu/)

> >>>>> Moderator, National Institute for Literacy's Content Standards

> >>>>> Discussion

> >>>>> List (http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Contentstandards)

> >>>>> Coordinator, Equipped for the Future Websites

> >>>>> (http://eff.cls.utk.edu/)

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Center for Literacy Studies, University of Tennessee

> >>>>> EFF Center for Training and Technical Assistance

> >>>>> Phone:(865) 974-4109 main

> >>>>>            (865) 974-4258 direct

> >>>>> Fax:   (865) 974-3857

> >>>>> e-mail: akohring at utk.edu

> >>>>>

> >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------

> >>>>> National Institute for Literacy

> >>>>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

> >>>>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

> >>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

> >>>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------

> >>>> National Institute for Literacy

> >>>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

> >>>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

> >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> >>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

> >>>

> >>> Aaron Kohring

> >>> Coordinator, LINCS Literacy & Learning Disabilities Special 

> Collection

> >>> (http://ldlink.coe.utk.edu/)

> >>> Moderator, National Institute for Literacy's Content Standards

> >>> Discussion

> >>> List (http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Contentstandards)

> >>> Coordinator, Equipped for the Future Websites

> >>> (http://eff.cls.utk.edu/)

> >>>

> >>> Center for Literacy Studies, University of Tennessee

> >>> EFF Center for Training and Technical Assistance

> >>> Phone:(865) 974-4109 main

> >>>            (865) 974-4258 direct

> >>> Fax:   (865) 974-3857

> >>> e-mail: akohring at utk.edu

> >>>

> >>> ----------------------------------------------------

> >>> National Institute for Literacy

> >>> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

> >>> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

> >>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

> >>>

> >>

> >> ----------------------------------------------------

> >> National Institute for Literacy

> >> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

> >> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

> >>

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------

> > National Institute for Literacy

> > Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

> > ContentStandards at nifl.gov

> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

> >

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult Education Content Standards mailing list

> ContentStandards at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/contentstandards

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 16342 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/contentstandards/attachments/20060405/26af0579/attachment.bin