This is an interesting conversation...and I'd like to add a different  
spin to it. I am currently facilitating Women Leading Through Reading  
Discussion Circles with women in Rhode Island [see WE LEARN Article:   
http://www.litwomen.org/news/06nov.pdf] . As women in these groups read  
aloud to each other, I have found 2 things: 1) they often will not read  
aloud any swear words they encounter; and 2) if they see  some form of  
dialect or slang written for a character's conversation, they often do  
not read it aloud that way -- they "translate" it into "correct"  
English and read aloud the "corrected" version! This happens more often  
than not.

even though I encourage students to read it the way it's written, they  
clearly have some discomfort in doing this.   I find it's not always  
clear why ... Do they want to demonstrate that they "know" this is  
"improper" English? What level of shame is already operative? Do they  
not want to read for a white woman their street language (though I have  
seen them correct the written word with black teachers as well)? When I  
have asked why they don't read what's written, they will often say  
"because it's wrong" or "we're not supposed to talk that way."

I would also wonder how many of us truly stick to proper English in the  
classroom? I have found myself in some situations where we're having  
social conversation and my own informal terminologies and  
pronunciations, well, slide.... I have lived in several states with  
varying dialects and accents...as I age, I carry and combine pieces of  
each in a mixed up way  -- some I "call up" as needed and others I can  
no longer discreetly identify! (I'm a language chameleon and often take  
on what I hear, especially in various regions of the country, even when  
it's not my region of origin.) Also, as someone mentioned, this brings  
up an interesting situation when there are English language learners  
also present in the room -- as everyone works to "decipher" accents and  
pronunciations.

So, as we have these discussions with our students, we may want to have  
the "values" conversation as well. What do they value and why? What do  
they need (or want) to do to "fit in" -- and how do they know when,  
where and why to do this? What's important to "succeed" -- and what  
does that mean -(when & where & at what)? Success could mean in the  
business world, but it might also mean what they need to do to live  
without threat in their neighborhood or home.  This, I think, becomes a  
gender issue as women will more often care about what people think,  
will consider how to be pleasing, and will know (or learn) how to adapt  
to survive or get what they need/want -- regardless of their economic  
situation.

Mev Miller
WE LEARN


On Thursday, December 28, 2006, at 11:32  AM, Andrea Wilder wrote:


> I think it's important for everyone to understand that they speak in

> "dialect."  I have certainly been reminded enough n the past that I

> speak in a "dialect."

>

> Like so much (all?) in adult literacy, this is a question of power.

> The dialect I speak is closer in pronunciation to Standard English

> speech than many adult learners, I am guessing.

>

> There is also another  part to the reading question--it seems to me

> that student dialect might change as  the student learns to attend more

> to reading words on the page.  This has happened to me, when I see for

> the first time  a different language when I have been only speaking it

> previously.  I have an Ah-ha!  feeling--this is how the speech is

> recorded.

>

> Andrea

> On Dec 28, 2006, at 10:26 AM, Jenny Horsman wrote:

>

>> Thanks Angela - I was eager to read June Jordan's article but sadly

>> its not

>> available in the pdf "due to copyright restrictions" (along with a lot

>> of

>> other wonderful sounding articles which I assume must all have been

>> reprints

>> - can you give us the full reference of where it was originally

>> published

>> I'd love to read it.

>>

>> Thanks too for reminding me of the past issues of the Change Agent -

>> there

>> are many that have powerful articles for an online course that I am

>> designing on violence and learning - I love that at least most of each

>> issue

>> is available online.

>>

>> Jenny

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Angela Orlando

>> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 2:42 PM

>> To: povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 145] Re: dialect and standard English

>>

>> Regarding "dialect" and "standard English"--a provocative and powerful

>> essay by June Jordan called "White English/Black English: The Politics

>> of Translation" addresses this dilemma well. The Change Agent  

>> reprinted

>> this in our March 2003 Language and Power issue, page 15. You can get

>> to

>> the article by downloading the entire PDF (but it's a big file) at

>> http://www.nelrc.org/changeagent/backissues.htm. There are a couple

>> of other articles on this dilemma as well in the same issue (page 6  

>> and

>> 7)

>>

>>

>> Cheers,

>> Angela Orlando

>>

>> Angela Orlando

>> Change Agent Editor

>> World Education

>> 44 Farnsworth Street

>> Boston, MA  02210

>>

>> tel: 617-482-9485

>> fax: 617-482-0617

>> email: aorlando at worlded.org

>>

>> Check out The Change Agent online at:

>> www.nelrc.org/changeagent

>>

>>

>>>>> <povertyracewomen-request at nifl.gov> 12/27/2006 10:57 AM >>>

>> Send PovertyRaceWomen mailing list submissions to

>> 	povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>>

>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>> 	http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>> 	povertyracewomen-request at nifl.gov

>>

>> You can reach the person managing the list at

>> 	povertyracewomen-owner at nifl.gov

>>

>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>> than "Re: Contents of PovertyRaceWomen digest..."

>>

>>

>> Today's Topics:

>>

>>    1. [PovertyRaceWomen 142]  gender differences in pay and dialect

>>       (Burkett, Barry)

>>    2. [PovertyRaceWomen 143] Re: gender differences in pay and

>>       dialect (andreawilder at comcast.net)

>>    3. [PovertyRaceWomen 144] Re: dialect (Jackson, Wendy P.)

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 1

>> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 11:41:47 -0500

>> From: "Burkett, Barry" <Barry.Burkett at Franklin.kyschools.us>

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 142]  gender differences in pay and dialect

>> To: "The Poverty, Race,	Women and Literacy Discussion List"

>> 	<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

>> Message-ID:

>> 	<5B5DF9F227918548AD5FF668A2E84EBC22E6B1 at ED181X1.franklin.ketsds.net>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>>

>> Maybe this is jsut the man in me talking, but what I find discouraging

>> and disheartening is that some people are "less" professional than

>> others; i.e. Lawyers vs. Professional Teachers, Teachers vs. Bus

>> Drivers... or in my case "Certified" personnell vs. "Classified"

>> personnell.

>>

>> As the reporter was eluding to, some women do choose to make less, and

>> some women strive to make more, as do men.  Maybe another issue is  

>> that

>> some people are more firm at vocalizing what they want, along with

>> being

>> more insistant that they get it.

>>

>> As far as dialect is concerned instead of using the term "Standard"

>> English I know many practitioners use the term of "Business" English.

>> But similar to what Andrea said in her previous posting, what is the

>> goal of the teacher, to reinforce miscues or correct.  If one is able

>> to

>> teach "Standard" and the student owns it, the student will effectively

>> know two languges, one of their folk and one of business, it is

>> empowering to know both.  Such as me being college educated, I grew up

>> in varied urban settings, and more recently began farming, the

>> backgorund allows me to work and connect people of many different

>> backgrounds at their level.  Or like many of Hip-Hop's nouveau riche,

>> who compare their business skills to hustlin to make ends meet;

>> language, in its varied forms, is a powerful tool.

>>

>> Now, how does dialect and sex tie in with pay?  I think that would be

>> interesting to find out.

>>

>> Does the Newsweek editorial, "My Black Skin Makes My White Coat

>> Vanish," from April 3, 2006 have anything to add to the discussion?

>> Peoples perceptions... pre-conceived notions, etc.?

>>

>> Barry Burkett

>>

>>

>> ________________________________

>>

>> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Andrea Wilder

>> Sent: Mon 12/25/2006 7:19 PM

>> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 141] Re: gender differences in pay

>>

>>

>>

>> This is discouraging and disheartening.

>>

>> Andrea

>>

>>

>> On Dec 24, 2006, at 1:50 PM, Daphne Greenberg wrote:

>>

>>> I thought that some of you may be interested in the following

>> article

>>> found at:

>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/24/business/24gap.html?th&emc=th

>>> THE NEW GENDER DIVIDE

>>> Gender Pay Gap, Once Narrowing, Is Stuck in Place

>>> By DAVID LEONHARDT

>>> A decade ago, it seemed that men and women with similar

>> qualifications

>>> might soon make nearly identical salaries.

>>> Today, that is far harder to envision.

>>> And a quote:

>>> "Nothing happened to the pay gap from the mid-1950s to the late

>> '70s.

>>> Then the '80s stood out as a period of sharp increases in women's

>> pay.

>>> And it's much less impressive after that."

>>> - FRANCINE D. BLAU, a Cornell economist, on gender differences in

>> pay.

>>>

>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/24/business/24gap.html?th&emc=th

>>>

>>> Daphne Greenberg

>>> Assistant Professor

>>> Educational Psych. & Special Ed.

>>> Georgia State University

>>> P.O. Box 3979

>>> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979

>>> phone: 404-651-0127

>>> fax:404-651-4901

>>> dgreenberg at gsu.edu

>>>

>>> Daphne Greenberg

>>> Associate Director

>>> Center for the Study of Adult Literacy

>>> Georgia State University

>>> P.O. Box 3977

>>> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977

>>> phone: 404-651-0127

>>> fax:404-651-4901

>>> dgreenberg at gsu.edu

>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>

>>

>> -------------- next part --------------

>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...

>> Name: not available

>> Type: application/ms-tnef

>> Size: 6778 bytes

>> Desc: not available

>> Url :

>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/povertyracewomen/attachments/20061226/

>> 627c9fcf

>> /attachment-0001.bin

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 2

>> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 00:08:52 +0000

>> From: andreawilder at comcast.net

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 143] Re: gender differences in pay and

>> 	dialect

>> To: "The Poverty, Race,	Women and Literacy Discussion List"

>> 	<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

>> Message-ID:

>> 	

>> <122720060008.21094.4591B993000C143E0000526622058860149D0A0B0407990E0A 

>> 9

>> D0B02

>> 0E at comcast.net>

>> 	

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>

>> OK, so I'll have to go over the article more carefully.

>>

>> Another thing I find disheartening and discouraging (also curious) is

>> the lack of outcry (in print) from the husbands of these women, it's

>> their bottom line that is affected, too.  Let's see, how much of  a

>> dollar discrepancy in pay would make a  partner sit up and take  

>> notice?

>> $5,000?  $10,000? How much of a dollar discrepancy would make women

>> fighting mad?

>>

>> Andrea

>>  -------------- Original message ----------------------

>> From: "Burkett, Barry" <Barry.Burkett at Franklin.kyschools.us>

>>> Maybe this is jsut the man in me talking, but what I find

>> discouraging and

>>> disheartening is that some people are "less" professional than

>> others; i.e.

>>> Lawyers vs. Professional Teachers, Teachers vs. Bus Drivers... or in

>> my case

>>> "Certified" personnell vs. "Classified" personnell.

>>>

>>> As the reporter was eluding to, some women do choose to make less,

>> and some

>>> women strive to make more, as do men.  Maybe another issue is that

>> some people

>>> are more firm at vocalizing what they want, along with being more

>> insistant that

>>> they get it.

>>>

>>> As far as dialect is concerned instead of using the term "Standard"

>> English I

>>> know many practitioners use the term of "Business" English.  But

>> similar to what

>>> Andrea said in her previous posting, what is the goal of the teacher,

>> to

>>> reinforce miscues or correct.  If one is able to teach "Standard" and

>> the

>>> student owns it, the student will effectively know two languges, one

>> of their

>>> folk and one of business, it is empowering to know both.  Such as me

>> being

>>> college educated, I grew up in varied urban settings, and more

>> recently began

>>> farming, the backgorund allows me to work and connect people of many

>> different

>>> backgrounds at their level.  Or like many of Hip-Hop's nouveau riche,

>> who

>>> compare their business skills to hustlin to make ends meet; language,

>> in its

>>> varied forms, is a powerful tool.

>>>

>>> Now, how does dialect and sex tie in with pay?  I think that would be

>>

>>> interesting to find out.

>>>

>>> Does the Newsweek editorial, "My Black Skin Makes My White Coat

>> Vanish," from

>>> April 3, 2006 have anything to add to the discussion?  Peoples

>> perceptions...

>>> pre-conceived notions, etc.?

>>>

>>> Barry Burkett

>>>

>>>

>>> ________________________________

>>>

>>> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Andrea Wilder

>>> Sent: Mon 12/25/2006 7:19 PM

>>> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List

>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 141] Re: gender differences in pay

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> This is discouraging and disheartening.

>>>

>>> Andrea

>>>

>>>

>>> On Dec 24, 2006, at 1:50 PM, Daphne Greenberg wrote:

>>>

>>>> I thought that some of you may be interested in the following

>> article

>>>> found at:

>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/24/business/24gap.html?th&emc=th

>>>> THE NEW GENDER DIVIDE

>>>> Gender Pay Gap, Once Narrowing, Is Stuck in Place

>>>> By DAVID LEONHARDT

>>>> A decade ago, it seemed that men and women with similar

>> qualifications

>>>> might soon make nearly identical salaries.

>>>> Today, that is far harder to envision.

>>>> And a quote:

>>>> "Nothing happened to the pay gap from the mid-1950s to the late

>> '70s.

>>>> Then the '80s stood out as a period of sharp increases in women's

>> pay.

>>>> And it's much less impressive after that."

>>>> - FRANCINE D. BLAU, a Cornell economist, on gender differences in

>> pay.

>>>>

>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/24/business/24gap.html?th&emc=th

>>>>

>>>> Daphne Greenberg

>>>> Assistant Professor

>>>> Educational Psych. & Special Ed.

>>>> Georgia State University

>>>> P.O. Box 3979

>>>> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979

>>>> phone: 404-651-0127

>>>> fax:404-651-4901

>>>> dgreenberg at gsu.edu

>>>>

>>>> Daphne Greenberg

>>>> Associate Director

>>>> Center for the Study of Adult Literacy

>>>> Georgia State University

>>>> P.O. Box 3977

>>>> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977

>>>> phone: 404-651-0127

>>>> fax:404-651-4901

>>>> dgreenberg at gsu.edu

>>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>>>

>>>

>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>> -------------- next part --------------

>> An embedded message was scrubbed...

>> From: "Burkett, Barry" <Barry.Burkett at Franklin.kyschools.us>

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 142]  gender differences in pay and dialect

>> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 19:59:12 +0000

>> Size: 10184

>> Url:

>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/povertyracewomen/attachments/20061227/

>> 242341e4

>> /attachment-0001.mht

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 3

>> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:06:13 -0500

>> From: "Jackson, Wendy P." <jacksonwp at roanestate.edu>

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 144] Re: dialect

>> To: <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

>> Message-ID:

>> 	<C34788CB9D11BC449275FA20E2E871FF073C567A at mailsrv2.rscc.cc.tn.us>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>>

>> This question not only applies to African Americans. I live in East

>> Tennessee where our Southern dialect is tinged with a left over  

>> version

>> of the Scotts-Irish. I was born here, but grew up in Atlanta. My

>> dialect

>> is tinged with the slow drawl of Georgia and the East Tennessee  

>> brogue.

>> When I was in college at Berry College in Rome, Ga my English  

>> Professor

>> told us that we had to speak in a manner that was understandable to

>> all.

>> He was from Connecticut and did not speak southern. The phrase "that

>> dog

>> won't hunt" meant nothing to him. It was not a matter of what was  

>> best,

>> but what was most widely understood. Among family and friends, I tend

>> to

>> be very southern in my speech (minus the heavy Georgia drawl of my

>> sisters who have lived in Georgia all their lives). At work and

>> professional settings, I try to drop the parts of speech that would

>> make

>> it difficult to follow. My husband says "warsh" for "wash" and   

>> allowed

>> to learn reading skills under that rule would affect a great many

>>  pronunciations. I try to emphasize not right and wrong or best and

>> worst, but most widely understood. Correction is required for them to

>> be

>> best understood outside of their cultural/ethnic group.

>>

>> Just my 2 cents...

>> Wendy

>>

>>

>> Wendy Jackson

>> Roane County Adult Education

>> Roane State Community College

>> 1082 N Gateway Ave.

>> Rockwood, TN 37854

>> (865) 376-6013

>> jacksonwp at roanestate.edu

>>

>> ________________________________

>>

>>

>> Message: 2

>> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:07:19 -0800 (PST)

>> From: Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com>

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 137] Re: dialect

>> To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"

>>         <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

>> Message-ID: <20061224160719.49022.qmail at web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>

>> Daphne,

>>

>>    If indeed it is true that "their dialect is their dialect and is

>> just as

>> acceptable as standard english" then their pronunciation needs no

>> correction.

>>

>>    I would ask this teacher what her goals are for her students. If  

>> her

>> goal is to bring them "up" to the norms of a culture that is widely

>> recognized as substandard, then she should let them pronounce words

>> anyway they like. After all, you wouldn't want to make anyone feel

>> uncomfortable.

>>    However, if her goal is to  raise her students' abilities above the

>> literacy norms of the society in which they have  been conditioned,

>> then

>> she should correct their every error without remorse.

>>

>> I cannot believe you are axing this question.

>>

>> Kearney Lykins

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ----- Original Message ----

>> From: Daphne Greenberg <alcdgg at langate.gsu.edu>

>> To: povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>> Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 10:31:09 AM

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 136]  dialect

>>

>> I was recently asked a question from an adult literacy teacher and I

>> wondered what folks on this listserv think. She teaches basic decoding

>> skills to adults who read at about the 3rd grade level. In addition to

>> a

>> language experience approach, she also spends quite a bit of time

>> systematically teaching them how to sound out words. Many of her

>> African

>> American students, when reading and sounding out words, read certain

>> words, the way they speak them. So for example, they read "ask" as

>> "aks"

>> and "strawberry" as "skrawberry". Since a portion of her class is

>> focused on teaching letter-sound correspondences and applying it to

>> decoding new and unknown words should she be concerned about the way

>> they read those words? She says that during nondecoding time, she is

>> not

>> concerned, because their dialect is their dialect and is just as

>> acceptable as standard english. However, she wondered if she is

>> teaching

>> decoding from a standard english point of view, should she be

>> correcting

>> the way they read those words?

>> What do people think?

>> Daphne

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> __________________________________________________

>> Do You Yahoo!?

>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

>> http://mail.yahoo.com

>> -------------- next part --------------

>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> URL:

>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/povertyracewomen/attachments/20061224/

>> 05fe8d8b

>> /attachment-0001.html

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 3

>> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:48:02 -0600

>> From: "Catherine B. King" <cb.king at verizon.net>

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 138] Re: dialect

>> To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"

>>         <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

>> Message-ID: <001001c7277b$4810cdf0$cad2193f at YOUR85A8F7B8EC>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;

>>         reply-type=original

>>

>> Hello Daphne:

>>

>> This comes up in my classes frequently--where my teachers are "caught"

>> between correcting someone's treasured tradition (in how they express

>> themselves, their dialect, etc.) and what we mean by "Standard

>> English."

>>

>> The task is to maintain a high regard for their tradition, while

>> introducing

>> them into what Jesse Jackson refers to as the "cash language" of our

>> time so

>> that they can operate well in it.  It's not a matter of "either or,"

>> but

>> rather of knowing both, as if there were actually two different

>> languages to

>> learn, and being able to "walk around" (discourse) in either/both at

>> the

>> **appropriate** times.  Their other task is to know which is which.

>>

>> As a teacher we just let them know that this is the general outline of

>> their

>> task, and they will then be able to choose to do it--or not.  As

>> teachers,

>> we need not make what amounts to moral or qualitative judgments about

>> someone's treasured dialect (or suggest that they must make such

>> judgments

>> about themselves)--the language that most in their home environment

>> still

>> speak, and will continue to speak.

>>

>> It's sort of like learning how to discourse in technical language (in

>> any

>> theoretical or professional field) after having learned "common"

>> language

>> and the meaning of its terms.   That is, using common meaning and its

>> terms

>> is one thing, and is appropriate when spoken at home or at the grocery

>> store, etc.; however, using technical meaning is quite another; and

>> when we

>> discourse in our field, or in a specific technical-theoretical field,

>> we are

>> very specific and defined about what we mean; and we use completely

>> different meanings for sometimes-similar terms that, to the grocery

>> clerk,

>> would come off as sounding completely "weird and foggy."

>>

>> Like we would not want to replace common with theoretical discourse in

>> the

>> grocery store (how awful would THAT be), we often do not want to

>> suggest

>> replacing a learner's dialect with what we mean by "Standard English."

>> Trying to do so puts the learner in the position of having to choose

>> between

>> what is "better" (presumably Standard English) all of the time, and

>> what is

>> "worse" (presumably, their own dialect and "home language) all of the

>> time.

>> And there is often some shame involved--which has been a topic here on

>> this

>> forum recently.   This situation is entirely UNnecessary.

>>

>> On the other hand, there is a great and necessary value to standards,

>> and of

>> course to Standard English or any other written language--it's  

>> becoming

>> a

>> worldwide language.

>>

>> This is not all there is to it; however, if a learner is going to

>> operate in

>> the "cash language," i.e., work in an office, etc., they need to

>> **also**

>> know how to speak "Roman as the Roman's do."   <--we must make it what

>> it

>> is--to THEIR advantage to do so.  We add a differentiation, and not an

>> either/or choice tinged with some sort of arrogance associated with

>> "white"

>> standard English.

>>

>> In brief, one way is to treat Standard English as if it were another

>> language altogether, which in some cases and sense, it is.

>>

>> I hope this helps,

>>

>> Catherine B. King

>> Adjunct Instructor

>> Department of Education

>> National University

>> San Diego, CA

>>

>>

>>

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: "Daphne Greenberg" <alcdgg at langate.gsu.edu>

>> To: <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

>> Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 9:31 AM

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 136] dialect

>>

>>

>>> I was recently asked a question from an adult literacy teacher and I

>>> wondered what folks on this listserv think. She teaches basic

>> decoding

>>> skills to adults who read at about the 3rd grade level. In addition

>> to a

>>> language experience approach, she also spends quite a bit of time

>>> systematically teaching them how to sound out words. Many of her

>> African

>>> American students, when reading and sounding out words, read certain

>>> words, the way they speak them. So for example, they read "ask" as

>> "aks"

>>> and "strawberry" as "skrawberry". Since a portion of her class is

>>> focused on teaching letter-sound correspondences and applying it to

>>> decoding new and unknown words should she be concerned about the way

>>> they read those words? She says that during nondecoding time, she is

>> not

>>> concerned, because their dialect is their dialect and is just as

>>> acceptable as standard english. However, she wondered if she is

>> teaching

>>> decoding from a standard english point of view, should she be

>> correcting

>>> the way they read those words?

>>> What do people think?

>>> Daphne

>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>

>> End of PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 2, Issue 20

>> ***********************************************

>>

>>

>> -------------- next part --------------

>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...

>> Name: not available

>> Type: application/ms-tnef

>> Size: 12020 bytes

>> Desc: not available

>> Url :

>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/povertyracewomen/attachments/20061227/

>> 075e31bf

>> /attachment.bin

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>

>> End of PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 2, Issue 23

>> ***********************************************

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>

>> -- 

>> No virus found in this incoming message.

>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/605 - Release Date:

>> 12/27/2006

>> 12:21 PM

>>

>>

>> -- 

>> No virus found in this outgoing message.

>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.29/607 - Release Date:

>> 12/28/2006

>> 12:31 PM

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>