Tis isn't Sarah, it's Andrea--I have the reference also, in one of my 
anthropology books, of course I can't remember which one.

What I remember:

1.	an intermediate "gay" persona during later adolescence before taking 
on the full male gender and behavior;  also, 2. an honored male role as 
official "outsider" for the gay male.  These are two separate 
instances.  I would find it very interesting if someone on this list 
would make such a socio-gram (s) for the varieties of American 
experience.

Andrea

On Nov 21, 2007, at 6:32 AM, Katherine G wrote:


> Sarah, do you have more information on the "third gender" idea?  I had 

> a Native American friend tell me tribes consider gay and transgender 

> people as being special.  I think this is what she meant.

>  

> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

>  

>  -----Original Message-----

> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov 

> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Sarah 

> Eisenstein

> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:03 PM

> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List

> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1424] Re: Trans Day of Remembrance

>

>> I am definitely not an expert on definitions, but here's my 

>> understanding.

>> A person's sex is their biological characteristics (and someone can 

>> have a range of biology from what we think of as strictly "female" to 

>> strictly "male" or a mix - people are born with their 

>> characteristics, develop their characteristics, and also surgically 

>> change characteristics).  

>>  

>> Transgender is about identity - all the non-biological markers, such 

>> as how a person dresses and thinks about themselves.  We all have a 

>> gender identity, but gender conforming people's gender identity 

>> matches the world's perception of them and/or their biological 

>> sex.  Trans people strongly identify with a gender different from 

>> their biological sex, or with a gender that is somewhere between the 

>> binary poles of male/female.  Some transgender people have physically 

>> changed their bodies to match their identity through hormones and/or 

>> surgery.  Some trans people want to, but can't access surgery, and 

>> others don't want to change their bodies, they just see themselves as 

>> a different gender than society has classified them.   

>>  

>> Like the Sylvia Rivera article pointed out, some people embrace a 

>> gender non-conforming identity, while others (like femme boys or 

>> butch girls) are simply attacked because they don't fit in.

>> One other thing to mention is that many cultures traditionally had 

>> people of a "third gender" (such as Native American Two Spirit 

>> people), but I think that was mostly wiped out by colonialism. 

>>

>>  

>> On 11/20/07, Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote: Hi 

>> Sarah--

>>>

>>> I read the article.  I'm confused.  there seem to be a lot of names 

>>> out

>>> there which may / may not reflect political positions.  "Gay" I

>>> understand, "lesbian" I understand.  Transgender = physical change 

>>> from

>>> one gender to another?

>>>

>>> Thanks for any insight.

>>>

>>> Andrea

>>>

>>> On Nov 20, 2007, at 2:30 PM, Sarah Eisenstein wrote:

>>>

>>> > I found a link to this article on the website of the Sylvia Rivera 

>>> Law

>>> > Project - I think it's a good place to start.

>>> > http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0209,wilchins,32645,1.html

>>> >

>>> >

>>> > On 11/20/07, Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>>> > Transgender is such a new idea for me--does anyone know how many

>>> >> transgender people there are in our population?Percentages?What

>>> >> should I know about trangender people??

>>> >>

>>> >> Thanks!

>>> >>

>>> >> Andrea

>>> >> On Nov 20, 2007, at 10:11 AM, debnancy at comcast.net wrote:

>>> >>

>>> >> > ...I also forwarded the web site information to TESOL's 

>>> Internation

>>> >> > Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Friends I(LGBTF) caucus.

>>> >> > The TESOL caucus has worked to advocate for rights, safe 

>>> classrooms,

>>> >> > programs and curricula for queer ESOL students, teachers,

>>> >> > administrators and allies, internationally and their website has

>>> >> > become a resource:

>>> >> >

>>> >> > http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/seccss.asp?CID=297&DID=1799

>>> >> >

>>> >> > Best,

>>> >> > Deborah Schwartz

>>> >> >-------------- Original message ----------------------

>>> >> > From: "Laurie Sheridan" <laurie_sheridan at worlded.org>

>>> >> >> I think others (non-transgendered people) might also be 

>>> interested

>>> >> in

>>> >> >> knowing

>>> >> >> about this.When I looked at the list of trans people who have

>>> >> been

>>> >> >> murdered

>>> >> >> since 1970, I have to say I was shocked--it is a very long 

>>> list.

>>> >> >>

>>> >> >> I know it's a subject that evokes all kinds of feelings and

>>> >> >> reactions, but it

>>> >> >> can be a way to talk about basic human rights and the 

>>> prevalence of

>>> >> >> violence.

>>> >> >> Teachers will know when or whether it makes sense to talk 

>>> about in

>>> >> the

>>> >> >> classroom--it helps just to know that this web site exists.

>>> >> >>

>>> >> >> I did not know about this day of remembrance before, so thanks,

>>> >> >> Daphne.

>>> >> >>

>>> >> >> Laurie

>>> >> >>

>>> >> >> Laurie Sheridan, Workforce Development Coordinator

>>> >> >> World Education/SABES Central Resource Center

>>> >> >> 44 Farnsworth St.

>>> >> >> Boston, MA 02210

>>> >> >> (617) 482-9485

>>> >> >> lsheridan at worlded.org

>>> >> >>

>>> >> >> SABES:Training Leaders in Adult Basic Education

>>> >> >>

>>> >> >>

>>> >> >>>>> "Daphne Greenberg" < ALCDGG at langate.gsu.edu> 11/19/2007 

>>> 7:28 PM

>>> >> >>>

>>> >> >> For those of us who have trans learners in our classes, they 

>>> may be

>>> >> >> interested

>>> >> >> in knowing (if they don't know already) that Tuesday, 

>>> 11/20/07, is

>>> >> >> the Trans Day

>>> >> >> of Remembrance. For more information go to:

>>> >> >> http://www.gender.org/remember/day/

>>> >> >> Daphne

>>> >> >>

>>> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------

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