Abuse is ordinary, it happens to many people.  EVERYONE should know  
about it.  Don't put us beyond the pale, into the region that is "not  
normal."  That is an impossible burden, to be thought of as "not  
normal."  It's why I don't speak up except on this list.  The  
reactions of other people are horrendous.  The "innocents" try to  
engage and fail. Don't use the word "normal, " it's an insult.  YOU,  
the teachers must accept abuse as ordinary,and the abusers as  
ordinary, and by ordinary I mean "part of the human experience."   
Abusers?  I think you should bring up to your students the legal  
consequences of abuse.  Perpetrators pay attention to that.  Be firm,  
be consistent, and move on.

There are two (2) people among my friends who knew the details of my  
abuse and did not back away.  One is a doctor the other a former  
member of a cult,  who was, herself, abused.  She and some others in  
the cult, left--and sued.  She got enough money to buy a baby grand  
piano.

Andrea


On Dec 22, 2008, at 10:17 PM, Andrea Wilder wrote:


> Yes, counselors should rotate, or experts in the field, with info

> about cases. should rotate.  There are excellent people out there.

> Yes, teachers should be very wary of entering this minefield.

>

> Andrea

>

> On Dec 22, 2008, at 8:49 PM, Nadia and Kevin Colby wrote:

>

>> A lot of our students, more women than men from what I learned,

>> have gone through abuse and very painful experiences.  I have been

>> following this discussion and two things call my attention, the

>> decision we have to make regarding the inclusion among "us" of

>> perpetrators at the cost of creating a fearful class environment

>> and the "normalization" of abuse and their agents.  The other

>> option being the exclusion and pathologizing of individuals who

>> probably have not gotten much help.

>>

>> As an instructor and someone who has dealt literally with recovery,

>> I suggest to my colleagues that unless there is someone with

>> clinical experience, a solid background, and a strong sense of

>> respect for those who are victims of abuse, and  for the

>> perpetrators who might be victims of their own selves,it might be

>> better not to approach the subject.

>>

>> In fact some instructors might shy away much more than others from

>> the topic because of their own experiences even though they might

>> be much more sensitive because their existence might be marked.

>>

>> Some students have approached me with the most personal issues.  I

>> have listened to them.  I have stayed away from advising them in

>> any way.  I am not a therapist, a counselor, a psychologist or a

>> psychiatrist.

>> My good intentions, my empathy with the "other" (even when the

>> individual might be a perpetrator) does not give me the tools to

>> advise anyone.

>> In fact I would question the categories that are being used.

>> Oftentimes a perpetrator has been terribly abused, and someone

>> victimized  will most likely become a perpetrator if help is

>> unavailable.

>>

>> Frankly this leads me to a big issue, funding.  Barely can programs

>> pay teachers and their own survival. However, it is sad to think

>> that people walk in and out of classrooms and get no help.

>> Especially because adult education is their great opportunity to

>> redefine, to an extent, their lives, their dreams, their past.

>>

>> I am sure there are experts in this list on issues that pertain to

>> abuse of all sorts.  The only way I would dare bringing up the

>> issue if it did come up naturally or if it was part of the program

>> requirements would be with the aid of curricula written by people

>> with solid background in the field and based on quality research.

>> As an instructor probably I would share part of my story but in no

>> way would I attempt to facilitate a session.  I think that a good

>> counselor would be needed.

>>

>> Considering the lack of funding, counselors could rotate sites or

>> classrooms and facilitate the number of lessons that the program

>> requires

>> with the aide of "state of the art" curricula.

>>

>> I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it is my experience and my

>> blessing to know there are wonderful people in the disciplines that

>> pertain to the mind, but more often that not one ends up screening

>> and discarding those who make money out of people's painful

>> experiences with no sense of respectful and committed solidarity.

>>

>> Regards,

>> Nadia Quiroz-Colby

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> --- On Mon, 12/22/08, Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>>

>>> From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>

>>> Subject: [Diversity 287] Re: abusers in our classrooms

>>> To: "The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List"  

>>> <diversity at nifl.gov>

>>> Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 1:30 PM

>>> As a survivor, I can tolerate case studies and experts

>>> coming to

>>> class to teach others about abuse and its consequences for

>>> living and

>>> learning. I CANNOT tolerate well-meaning people who have no

>>> concept

>>> of the terror that abuse brings.  I'm just running

>>> through in my mind

>>> the circumstances under which I would rise in class and say

>>> "You're

>>> an idiot, you don't know what you are talking

>>> about."  How many times

>>> have I ben tempted....

>>>

>>> (I am a student again, auditing 3 classes.)

>>>

>>> Andrea :)

>>>

>>> On Dec 22, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Daphne Greenberg wrote:

>>>

>>>> Holly,

>>>> I totally agree with you. We need to be very careful

>>> about what we

>>>> intentionally bring up in the classroom. I don't

>>> think that adult

>>>> literacy teachers should purposely broach topics that

>>> can be

>>>> triggering-unless that is the purpose of the class

>>> (for example, a

>>>> class on family violence), or unless there is a strong

>>> connection

>>>> between the instructional services that are offered

>>> and counseling

>>>> services. Sometimes, however these topics come up in

>>> the adult

>>>> literacy classroom on their own, and that can make

>>> things difficult.

>>>> I am very interested in the problem based learning

>>> activities you

>>>> describe below, and my guess is that others are as

>>> well. Can you

>>>> tell us more about them?

>>>> Daphne

>>>>

>>>>>>> "Holly Dilatush"

>>> <holly at dilatush.com> 12/20/08 11:25 PM >>>

>>>> First off, Daphne, ditto on the "thank you for

>>> broaching this topic."

>>>>

>>>> I've not considered this in the same way you have

>>> outlined.  Wow is

>>>> right...

>>>> wow...

>>>>

>>>> Once a sense of community has been established, I

>>> think it *is*

>>>> something

>>>> that would be important to bring up more in classes,

>>> in other social

>>>> situations.  But there is huge risk (my opinion) -- of

>>> triggering

>>>> responses

>>>> (as others have indicated -- of triggering reliving of

>>> trauma for

>>>> victims

>>>> -- but also I think it might escalate the fear factor

>>> and the mistrust

>>>> factor, and I'm never sure if that's a good

>>> thing.  Our world

>>>> increasingly

>>>> thrusts examples of actions I'd like to believe

>>> aren't true in our

>>>> face (on

>>>> TV, radio, internet, all forms of media, and 24/7.

>>> Hope and trust

>>>> in fellow

>>>> humans is sometimes challenging for me to find.  And

>>> yet without hope,

>>>> without a sense of trust, I feel less of a person.

>>>>

>>>> The three times I've had knowledge (rather than

>>> 'just' suspicion)

>>>> of incidents of violence/abuse involving learners in

>>> classes I was

>>>> facilitating/teaching, all left me feeling inadequate

>>> to deal with the

>>>> situation, dissatisfied with my actions, limited

>>> referrals.

>>>>

>>>> I believe strongly in intentional dialogues and the

>>> power they have

>>>> to spark

>>>> positive change or action in people.  But I beleive

>>> equally that I

>>>> am not

>>>> prepared to cope with all of the resulting trauma that

>>> may be

>>>> triggered.

>>>> So, I question strongly whether it is

>>> 'correct' to intentionally

>>>> raise the

>>>> red flags --

>>>> Despite this, I more of than not *will* bring up such

>>> topics/issues/

>>>> ethical

>>>> dilemmas... most often in a "no answer is

>>> necessarily right or

>>>> wrong" PBL

>>>> (problem-based learning) sort of activity --

>>> frequently using case

>>>> studies

>>>> and drama theory applications and guest speakers (from

>>> relevant

>>>> service/survivor groups).

>>>>

>>>> A worthwhile topic and certainly one for reflection...

>>>> holly

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> -- 

>>>> Holly (Dilatush)

>>>> ESOL Coordinator/Facilitator/Instructor

>>>> ABA Virtual Learning Center

>>>> Charlottesville, VA USA

>>>> holly at dilatush.com

>>>> (434) 960.7177 cell phone

>>>> (434) 295.9716 home phone

>>>> [OK to call 7:30 a.m. to 9:30 p.m. EST / GMT -5 time]

>>>>

>>>> "Live with intention. Share inside~out smiles,

>>> inspire hope, seek

>>>> awe and

>>>> nurture in nature."  (original by Holly)

>>>>

>>>> Plan to attend TESOL 2009!

>>> http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/

>>>> convention2009/

>>>>

>>>> My presentation: Exploring Intercultural Communication

>>> and Conflict

>>>> Resolution Through Drama; Reflecting Online:

>>>> 3/28/2009 at 12:30 PM in room 603 at the Colorado

>>> Convention Center.

>>>>

>>>> http://tales-around-the-world.blogspot.com

>>>> http://abavirtual-learningcenter.org

>>>> http://blogblossoms.edublogs.org

>>>> *Twitter and Skype IDs = smilin7

>>>>

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>>> please go to

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>>>

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>

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