Hello Katherine, Hugo, and all,

Katherine, I sense from your posts that we are actually not in disagreement at all.

There is, indeed, a very fine line that can be more easily crossed when the bar of formality is lowered.  One issue I do not need to deal with is that of "concessions." I am not held to any requirements that I can apply more or less leniently.  In fact (and on the other hand), my classes are quite rigorous,  because I realize that many, if not most students will ultimately judge their instructional experience in terms of the learning that they perceive has occurred. 

As for Hugo's statement that we ought to dress to the most conservative culture (within reason): I believe this carries more meaning in British than in American life, particularly as we head towards the western part of the U.S., not to mention Hawaii.  Further, there is the sociolinguistic notion of "upward divergence." It is typically a negative phenomenon to begin with, in which a learner is led to identify with or hold on to his or her "condition" even more as a result of a pre-existing negative perception of higher social classes.  The possible adverse impact on affect in an instructional setting can and does impede learning.

So, in my opinion, again, we can ultimately not judge a book by its cover. There simply are no hard and fast rules.

Michael


 
Michael A. Gyori 
Maui International Language School 
www.mauilanguage.com




________________________________
From: Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt <katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com>
To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List <diversity at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 2:18:10 AM
Subject: [Diversity 1139] Re: Boundaries of professional relationships

Michael, you are very lucky to have reached such a comfortable place with your students!  

I realize that not all informal encounters are related to sexuality and didn't mean to imply otherwise.  I was merely taking the first example of how dressing down can cloud boundaries.

Here are some other things I've see when teachers and students become more casual in dress and take it outside of class:

----student feels the teacher is now a "friend" and expects certain concessions (such as more lenient grading, deadline extensions, permission to "act out" in class, etc.)

---student talks to friends about the great time s/he had at Professor X's house; tales of wild partying begin to circulate among the school

---student begins to feel dependent on the teacher (socially, emotionally, etc.)

If none of this resonates with you, then you are fortunate!





On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Michael Gyori <tesolmichael at yahoo.com> wrote:

Greetings Katherine and all,

>

>I find it interesting how a number of issues are converging, i.e., attire, professional demeanor, and sexual harassment.

>

>Let me just list a few thoughts of my own and anecdotes, in no particular order:

>	1. Sexual harassment only occurs when an individual feels sexually harassed (except in cases where one party is legally considered a minor and/or below the age of consent).

>	2. Consensual relationships between two individuals who meet in a professional setting (colleagues, teachers and students, doctors and patients, etc.)  are not governed by law but workplace policies. 

>	3. Informal encounters are not inherently related to sexuality, nor do they inherently represent a violation of professional "distance."

>	4. I once hired an ESL teacher to take over one of my classes that I no longer had time to teach.  In the class, there was one student I had taught for several years. The ESL teacher and student ended up dating, moved from Hawaii to Wisconsin, had a child, and both appear happy as I have never seen them (I met them in Hawaii when they were visiting and called me to get together).  This is a touching story, and I have no personal or professional values that leave me conflicted by what happened in this situation.

>	5. My wife and I occasionally have get-togethers with my (adult) ESL students.  We'll have them over and spend time together in a "private capacity." I not only condone such get-togethers, but believe that they lend humanity to education. It's part and parcel of human coexistence.

>	6. I dress informally at all times.  When I teach, I am clean-shaven and wear shorts and a T-shirt, although my "nice" ones.

>I could go on and on, but my point is actually a simple one: one cannot judge a book by its cover...

> 

>Michael

>

> 

>Michael A. Gyori 

>Maui International Language School 

>www.mauilanguage.com

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________
From: Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt <katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com>

>To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List <diversity at nifl.gov>

>Sent: Wed, October 21, 2009 3:08:11 PM

>Subject: [Diversity 1135] Re: Get dirty in street clothes, maybe have a beer with parents and at least act like a human being...

>

>The only reason I even brought up the issue of sexual harassment is that I feel "hanging out" with students outside of class creates a slippery slope that first, can be misinterpreted, and second, can become misguided.  Attire that is less professional than what is seen in the classroom could be perceived as an invitation to get a little more personal than an instructor might intend, especially if an instructor is out "having a beer" with his or her student.  Again, it's the issue of boundaries and perceptions.

>

>Yes, Bertie, there have been increased numbers of women tried for having sexual relationships with underaged males, but I was thinking in terms of adult education here where the student/teacher relationship can be even more complex because there is the assumption, "We're all adults here."  As we know, however, being an adult does not necessarily equate with behaving appropriately.

>

> I am not sure I agree that sexual harassment is always about power.  In some cases, I truly believe it's more about stupidity or ignorance (note the difference)---i.e. "No....you cannot ask your teacher on a date no matter how sincere you are," or vice versa.  

>

>

>On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Bertha Mo <bertiemo at yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>Katherine:

>>

>>I agree that statistically speaking, more females than males get sexually harassed.  However, I've noticed that female teachers are being tried for having sexual relationships with underaged males, while I'm also beginning to see reports of males complaining about unwanted attention from female superiors..  But I thought we were talking about "attire."  Sexual harassment is about power, not about sexuality.

>>

>>Best,

>>

>>Bertie

>>

>>

>>

>>

________________________________
From: Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt <katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com> 

>>

>>To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List <diversity at nifl.gov>

>>Sent: Wed, October 21, 2009 11:03:43 AM

>>Subject: [Diversity 1127] Re: Get dirty in street clothes, maybe have a beer with parents and at least act like a human being...

>>

>>

>>When I think in terms of sexual harassment, I think mostly of women being harassed.  Sorry to say, this is a statistical reality, no matter what the woman is wearing.

>>

>>

>>On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Michael Gyori <tesolmichael at yahoo.com> wrote:

>>

>>Hello Bertie and all,

>>>

>>>So women can dress in a masculine fashion in a corporate setting, but men cannot dress in a femine manner.  You are right, Bertie. That said, is the corporate domain the one we should single out?  In it, there is, in my opinion, an almost surreal effort underway to emasculate women.  

>>>

>>>That's a world I don't wish to participate in, much less identify with.

>>>

>>>Michael

>>>

>>>

>>> 

>>>Michael A. Gyori 

>>>Maui International Language School 

>>>www.mauilanguage.com

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

________________________________
From: Bertha Mo <bertiemo at yahoo.com>

>>>To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List <diversity at nifl.gov>

>>>Sent: Mon, October 19, 2009 4:07:56 PM

>>>Subject: [Diversity 1125] Re: Fw: Get dirty in street clothes, maybe have a beer with parents and at least act like a human being...

>>>

>>>

>>>I don't think it's different for men and women to maintain boundaries or to dress comfortably and appropriately.  In fact, since it became appropriate for women to wear tailored pants for work, I find that women, not men have a wider choice of professional wear.  I'm curious why others feel that it might be different for women.

>>>

>>>Best,

>>>

>>>Bertie 

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>----------------------------------------------------

>>>National Institute for Literacy

>>>Diversity and Literacy mailing list

>>>Diversity at nifl.gov

>>>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/diversity

>>>

>>

>>

>>-- 

>>Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

>>Community Writer for NEWS AND MESSENGER

>>www.insidenova.com

>>

>>----------------------------------------------------

>>National Institute for Literacy

>>Diversity and Literacy mailing list

>>Diversity at nifl.gov

>>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/diversity

>>

>

>

>-- 

>Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

>Community Writer for NEWS AND MESSENGER

>www.insidenova.com

>

>

>----------------------------------------------------

>National Institute for Literacy

>Diversity and Literacy mailing list

>Diversity at nifl.gov

>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/diversity

>



-- 
Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
Community Writer for NEWS AND MESSENGER
www.insidenova.com



      
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