What is BENL?  

-----Original Message-----
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bruce Carmel
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:36 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Cc: sdalmas at queenslibrary.org
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Literacy in Native Language

Hello List,
I think the last part of Robin's posting is very
important: What do the students want to learn?  

I know there is research that supports the
effectiveness of teaching people to read and write in
their native language.  So students come to us saying
"I want to learn English"  and we say "You  can learn
some English in a year. Learn this other stuff that
you don't really want to learn first. Trust me, it
will work."  Will they stay?  

I know this gets into a sticky area.  Sometimes what
students want is what I would call bad instruction. 
Sometimes the students' goals are purely articulated. 
But if a student says, "I want to learn English"  I
think that is a reasonable goal and think we should
teach her some English.  People can learn English
without knowing how to write in any language--isn't
that what illiterate immigrants have done for years
and years?  It just can't be in a class that assumes
native language literacy, mixed in with students who
are literate in their own language.  And the teacher
needs to find new ways to teach. 

At the Queens Library (where I used to work), Susan
Dalmas champions "ESOL Literacy," teaching students to
read, write, speak and understand English all at the
same time.  Instruction moves at a different pace, and
the teacher can't rely on reading and writing in the
same way she would if students were literate in their
own language.  It is a big undertaking and a big
committment.  Teachers have to be trained to use
different methods and to recognize the progess that is
happening.  There is a lot more to learn so it can
seem like learning is "slow." 

Another reality in some areas is that not everyone has
the same native language.  If Students from dozens of
countries come to one program, BENL is not possible. 


>From Bruce Carmel

Turning Point





--- robinschwarz1 at aol.com wrote:


> Basic literacy in any language is supported by

> phonological skills: 

> phonological awareness, underlying literacy skills,

> and phonological 

> memory, underlying aural/oral skills ( listening and

> speaking).   Thus 

> those skills must be verified to be strong in an

> adult that is becoming 

> literate.   These are pre-literacy skills--not

> directly related to 

> text--the kind of skills nursery rhymes were

> intended to support in 

> English.  It a sense of the sound chunks of a given

> language ( i.e. 

> words, syllables--and sometimes discrete phonemes,

> though actual 

> phoneme awareness in an alphabetic language takes

> exposure to print.)  

> and how these chunks can be manipulated.  In

> English, phonological 

> awareness includes an awareness of rhyme.  It also

> includes awareness 

> of tone and pitch and other non-language sounds (

> suprasegmentals).   

> These are the skills the huge majority of children

> come to school with, 

> or had well-developed before they were exposed to

> print concepts.  In 

> the researchi on reading difficulties ( dyslexia )

> phonological 

> awareness, has been found to be the basic skill

> needed for 

> literacy--which is why it is so difficult for

> dyslexics to master 

> reading--they are known to have difficulties with

> phonological 

> awareness.  Therefore, if it is not well developed,

> a learner will have 

> enormous difficulty in becoming literate.   As

> mentioned in an earlier 

> response to Jay,  literacy skills--and pre-literacy

> skills should and 

> do transfer quite readily unless there is some

> reason they do not.

> 

> Since understanding and mastering grammar is

> dependent on good 

> phonological skills (remember the manipulating of

> chunks part-- moving 

> or adding words, syllables or sounds to new meanings

> is what we 

> describe as grammar-) then it is a universal skill

> and not a 

> language-specific one.  The field of second language

> acquisition does 

> not consider that interference of one's first

> language with the new 

> language is anything other than a normal language

> learning stage.   If 

> having fractured grammar in one language would lead

> to the same thing 

> in the new language, then the opposite could also be

> presumed to be 

> true.  But having perfect grammar in one language

> does not guarantee 

> having perfect grammar in the new language--if

> phonological awareness 

> is fundamentally weak but that weakness was overcome

> through repetition 

> and practice in one language, it will raise its ugly

> head when a new 

> language is encountered.  Think how many high school

> and college 

> students who fail miserably at learning a foreign

> language even though 

> they are highly literate in their first language.  I

> know I have at 

> least one person like that in every audience I

> address, large or small. 

>    In fact, it was that very phenomenon--very bright

> college students 

> unable to learn foreign languages--which launched

> research into how 

> dylexia impacts foreign language learning.

> 

> As for learners not wanting to become literate in

> their first language, 

> it is their choice, not ours. But as always, we want

> it to be an 

> informed choice.  They should be helped to truly

> understand that it is 

> probably actually a shorter route to English

> literacy to start with 

> first language literacy.   And becoming literate in

> their language 

> doesn't have to mean they are barred from English

> classes--where a lot 

> of other kinds of literacy-- signage, labels on

> groceries,  directions 

> on commeon objects--can take place.   And of course,

> their becoming 

> literate in their first language means being taught

> literacy by someone 

> literate in it....which could be a challenge for

> many languages.

> 

> Robin Schwarz

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Luri Owen <lowen at adult-learning-inc.com>

> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion

> List 

> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:47:58 -0700

> Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] FROM  JAY CASTANO AT

> ROSARIO CENTER, IN 

> WASHINGTON, DC

> 

> I can understand why students who are living in the

> US feel that they 

> don't

> have time to become literate in their own languages

> before tackling 

> English.

> Off the top of my head, I'd say that literacy in

> English could perhaps

> tranfer to literacy in their own languages

> depending, of course, on 

> what

> alphabet their language uses--we know that literacy

> in L1 makes 

> learning L2

> easier, so I would think that writing and reading in

> L2 could perhaps 

> make

> writing in L1 a little easier.  But what I wonder is

> whether students 

> will

> value L1 literacy at that point, not because it

> isn't important, but

> because, if their lives and families are immersed in

> an 

> English-speaking

> world, will they feel that it's "progress" to loop

> back and learn as an

> adult in L1.  And, of course, English syntax and

> grammar don't follow 

> the

> same rules as syntax and grammar in other languages,

> which could lead 

> to a

> student writing "fractured" L1 AND "fractured"

> English!  I suppose a 

> help

> for that would be to try to get them reading in L1.

> 

> Luri Owen

> Bayfield/ESL Coordinator

> The Adult Learning Center, Inc.

> Phone 970-884-7765

> 

> 

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "A Tom" <abtom at mindspring.com>

> To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion

> List"

> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:36 PM

> Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] FROM JAY CASTANO AT

> ROSARIO CENTER,IN

> WASHINGTON, DC

> 

> 

> I don't know about research but my adult students

> don't feel that they

> have the time to do this.  What I'm curious about is

> whether becoming

> literate in english then carries over to the

> student's first language.

> Abbie Tom

> On Monday, February 6, 2006, at 06:55  PM,

> JMCAST1031 at aol.com wrote:

> abtom at mindspring.com

> Abbie Tom

> Durham Technical Community College

> Durham, NC US

> 

> > Hi, everyone...... a "quick and dirty" question.

> Is there any

> > research on teaching

> > Adult LD or illiterate students in their own

> language for a

> > semester or 100 hours, before

> > immersion into English???? Basically, if the

> student learns how to

> > read and write and/or

> > decode in their language, is that a benefit to

> them in their process

> > of learning English???

> >

> > Thanks, Jay

> 

=== message truncated ===


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